Motherwell FC - A Thread For All Seasons

[Neil86]

Btw, I thought Zdrawoski was decent when he came on, he got a bit of slack after the St Mirren game, he lost Boyce after about a minute but after that, he looked a lot more assured, certainly not the quickest right enough as we seen when he was played in down the right.

Theo Bair as well was a handful all day, he will never be a world beater but he showed nice touches.

[Desp]

1 minute ago, ropy said:

I was thinking about the managerial merry go round given that guys like Kettlewell and Robinson are ‘hot’ at the moment.  Where is their head at? An opportunity to build a dynasty over a period of time at a club, or jump at a ‘bigger’ club for more cash in the short term.  Do they think I am a good fit for where I am or I might win something with a city club.  This applies to Martindale as well - he is a good fit for Livingston, why risk something else.

The problem with loyalty is that neither we the fans, nor the club board return it if there is a fallow period.

I often think back to Wee Tommy, he got time to build his squad then we won a cup, the most frequent shout from the terrace was ‘resign McLean’.

Anyway, it’s Monday morning, top of the league……

I think it's pretty much impossible to 'build' something with a club like Motherwell these days.  With the combination of the short term/loan deals that are dished out, coupled with the money available elsewhere, as soon as a club like ours achieves any kind of success, players will simply get cherry picked by the bigger sides.

In terms of the managers, they'll be the same as the players.  If a better offer comes in, he'll be offski.  Like you say, there's absolutely no loyalty shown the other way. If we lose seven out of the next eight, they'll be folk wanting Kettlewell sacked.

I think we just enjoy Ketts while he's here.  We all know that he won't be able to say no when Real Madrid are chapping his door in December. 

[Swello]

1 minute ago, ropy said:

I was thinking about the managerial merry go round given that guys like Kettlewell and Robinson are ‘hot’ at the moment.  Where is their head at? An opportunity to build a dynasty over a period of time at a club, or jump at a ‘bigger’ club for more cash in the short term.  Do they think I am a good fit for where I am or I might win something with a city club.  This applies to Martindale as well - he is a good fit for Livingston, why risk something else.

The problem with loyalty is that neither we the fans, nor the club board return it if there is a fallow period.

I often think back to Wee Tommy, he got time to build his squad then we won a cup, the most frequent shout from the terrace was ‘resign McLean’.

Anyway, it’s Monday morning, top of the league……

We were talking about this in the pub after the game yesterday. Robinson, Kettlewell and Martindale would take jobs at Hearts or Hibs at the drop of a hat because that is how football (and even normal jobs) works. The wage difference would be properly significant, the budgets are much higher and the exposure that comes from doing well at these clubs is on a different planet. There isn't always an easy "promotion" from our level of clubs for managers but doing well at one of the city clubs would open doors down south.

The normal counter arguments that we have - the ridiculous expectation levels, the fact that they can't really achieve much more in a sporting sense just don't come into it. On the flip side, Hibs and Hearts very rarely go for the sensible, low risk option because it's better having a supposed "name" brought in from outside rather than a guy that manages Livi or Motherwell.

[capt_oats]

I think Kettlewell is kind of in that sweet spot for us at the moment in so much as he's only been in the door 5 mins and his record is so fucking ludicrous that I'd imagine most would think that it's still a kind of new manager bounce effect and his bubble is due to burst.

Like, he's clearly a manager who knows what he's about but a 65% win rate with a club like Motherwell feels like it's unsustainable - given Brown was 47.73% (44 games), McCall was 42.5% (174 games), Robinson was 42% (169 games) and McGhee's first spell was 39.8% (88 games).

[Handsome_Devil]

I suspect most vultures will dismiss SK so far on the basis KVV did everything and it's too early to tell this term. Not necessarily fairly, of course. 

So we'll have him a little bit yet regardless. Most probably we'll revert to the mean shortly and it all becomes irrelevant.

Robinson will presumably have learned from his time with us and will have his agent working his ticket, I'd guess. If offered Hibs he'd be mental not to take it.

Martindale a different prospect for the well known reasons, I can't see him leaving Livingston.

Edited September 4, 2023 by Handsome_Devil

[Neil86]

43 minutes ago, Swello said:

We were talking about this in the pub after the game yesterday. Robinson, Kettlewell and Martindale would take jobs at Hearts or Hibs at the drop of a hat because that is how football (and even normal jobs) works. The wage difference would be properly significant, the budgets are much higher and the exposure that comes from doing well at these clubs is on a different planet. There isn't always an easy "promotion" from our level of clubs for managers but doing well at one of the city clubs would open doors down south.

The normal counter arguments that we have - the ridiculous expectation levels, the fact that they can't really achieve much more in a sporting sense just don't come into it. On the flip side, Hibs and Hearts very rarely go for the sensible, low risk option because it's better having a supposed "name" brought in from outside rather than a guy that manages Livi or Motherwell.

Largely in agreement here, BUT did Robinson not turn down hearts when he was with us? And pulled out of the Northern ireland race as well, whether that was him not being fancied for either and saying he didn't want it is as opposed to being told no is up for debate I am sure.

[capt_oats]

7 minutes ago, Neil86 said:

Largely in agreement here, BUT did Robinson not turn down hearts when he was with us? And pulled out of the Northern ireland race as well, whether that was him not being fancied for either and saying he didn't want it is as opposed to being told no is up for debate I am sure.

Nah, if you believe Burrows there was never any contact despite Robinson's Mr 20%s best efforts to get his name in the mix (in a similar way to the current discourse around the Hibs job).

https://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/motherwell-chief-breaks-stephen-robinson-20795203

I could be wrong but was it not around this time that Robinson's name started being linked with every available job going despite there never actually being any sort of concrete approach? eg: Luton, Huddersfield, Bournemouth etc.

Edited September 4, 2023 by capt_oats

[Handsome_Devil]

2 minutes ago, Neil86 said:

Largely in agreement here, BUT did Robinson not turn down hearts when he was with us? And pulled out of the Northern ireland race as well, whether that was him not being fancied for either and saying he didn't want it is as opposed to being told no is up for debate I am sure.

Could be misremembering but I think Hearts drifted away due to the spectre of certain legal proceedings and NI simply picked someone else.

[crazylegsjoe_mfc]

I thought Robinson was in the running for the Northern Ireland job, but they opted for Baraclough instead.

Stuart McCall is the best example for me. He turned down the Sheffield United job in 2013 to stay with us, only to be out on his arse 18 months later, which turned him into something of a L1 / L2 journeyman manager in England. I know he'll be doing alright for himself as a number 2 in the EPL now, but that could have changed his trajectory as a manager.

Management has got even more fickle in the times since Robinson and McCall were in for jobs - only four Premiership managers were in charge at their clubs at the start of last season - if Ketts was to get the offer of a bigger job than us whilst his stock is high, I reckon he'd be daft not to take it sadly. 

The last manager to leave us on the basis of being successful was Craig Brown almost thirteen years ago.

[Guest]

33 minutes ago, crazylegsjoe_mfc said:

I thought Robinson was in the running for the Northern Ireland job, but they opted for Baraclough instead.

Stuart McCall is the best example for me. He turned down the Sheffield United job in 2013 to stay with us, only to be out on his arse 18 months later, which turned him into something of a L1 / L2 journeyman manager in England. I know he'll be doing alright for himself as a number 2 in the EPL now, but that could have changed his trajectory as a manager.

Management has got even more fickle in the times since Robinson and McCall were in for jobs - only four Premiership managers were in charge at their clubs at the start of last season - if Ketts was to get the offer of a bigger job than us whilst his stock is high, I reckon he'd be daft not to take it sadly. 

The last manager to leave us on the basis of being successful was Craig Brown almost thirteen years ago.

And you'd have to go as far back to McLeish and Davies for any successful post Motherwell career.
Jobs a poison chalice mate 

[Handsome John]

2 hours ago, Desp said:

I think we just enjoy Ketts while he's here.  We all know that he won't be able to say no when Real Madrid are chapping his door in December. 

Before or after the Christmas party? 

[stephmc1886]

4 hours ago, Ron Aldo said:

Only just saw the goal from yesterday and it really was a cracking bit of football. 

Tiki Taka is already associated with Barcelona so I don't know what you'd call our wee bit of play yesterday. Tikka Taka in honour of The Thread© and our love of curries? 

Splatteryball.

[capt_oats]

Yer man JJ Bull is a giggle....

Mind the gap lads...

[Desp]

JJ Bullshit.  Amirite? 

[Guest]

Would love to hear the "cOnTeXt" for why St Mirren and Rangers are where they are right now?

[Mr. Brightside]

So we only have 4 points? Cause wins again Killie, Hibs and Hearts don't count.

[YassinMoutaouakil]

21 hours ago, RandomGuy. said:

Hefty regretting letting the vibes talk through me tbh, suspect ill get "smelly team" talk for years even once we're in the Championship. 

Fudge the numbers a bit until you can give us a Bair graph with as much green as possible and we won't mention it again.

[Swello]

 I'm loving the (90+7) justification on why beating a decent Killie side doesn't count but their draw against a decent St Mirren team, the (90+10) doesn't merit a mention.

I also love the heady mixture of xStats and shite assertions

[craigkillie]

4 minutes ago, Mr. Brightside said:

So we only have 4 points? Cause wins again Killie, Hibs and Hearts don't count.

That would give you 1 point unless numbers work differently in Lanarkshire.

[Mr. Brightside]

1 minute ago, craigkillie said:

That would give you 1 point unless numbers work differently in Lanarkshire.

Wins don't count, but draws do.