Motherwell FC - A Thread For All Seasons

[capt_oats]

Get him on the

[welldaft]

16 minutes ago, thisGRAEME said:

Individually, I like all of them.

Collectively; I want them all gone.

This a 100 times over. It is clear to see for even a blind man that our defence has been a major weakness.

That includes the goalie. I would not renew anyone’s contract and start afresh but I am sure Kelly will be offered something. Even today for the goal when the ball landed in the middle of the box he seemed to be at the back post. He is at best an average goalie who has the odd good game in a while. But nothing that could not be replaced quite easily imho. 

[well fan for life]

3 minutes ago, capt_oats said:

Get him on the

Hickey: extremely broken.

Patterson: played like me in the last five minutes of fives when I've a stinking hangover.

Johnston: Not proven.

SOD: On. That. Plane.

[Busta Nut]

This 5-2-3 system that Kettlewell sticks to so fucking rigidly is Killing us. 

Kettlewell is a shite manager. We're sliding towards doom. (or would be if the others weren't so shite)

 

[thisGRAEME]

39 minutes ago, Busta Nut said:

This 5-2-3 system that Kettlewell sticks to so fucking rigidly is Killing us. 

Kettlewell is a shite manager. We're sliding towards doom. (or would be if the others weren't so shite)

Actually disagree with this. He's made players better, recruitment has actually been good, the patterns of play exist, we score fucking loads of goals. 

I genuinely don't know how you legislate for players of McGinn's experience doing stuff like that today. Or Halliday missing that header. Or that Butcher has forgotten how to play football.

[Busta Nut]

I suppose it depends. I reckon my issues are a bit tactical. But like you said he seems a decent coach at times.

[wellboy1991]

25 minutes ago, thisGRAEME said:

Actually disagree with this. He's made players better, recruitment has actually been good, the patterns of play exist, we score fucking loads of goals. 

I genuinely don't know how you legislate for players of McGinn's experience doing stuff like that today. Or Halliday missing that header. Or that Butcher has forgotten how to play football.

Tactically tho, he this year imo made a shed load of mistakes. Even today it was crying out for the team to move to Vale beside Bair and Spittal in the 10. The formation just was not working.

I like him but he has made so many stupid errors that has realistically cost us a lot of points. Over thinks formations and is ridiculously stubborn in his approach. 

[Handsome_Devil]

6 hours ago, wellboy1991 said:

Tactically tho, he this year imo made a shed load of mistakes. Even today it was crying out for the team to move to Vale beside Bair and Spittal in the 10. The formation just was not working.

I like him but he has made so many stupid errors that has realistically cost us a lot of points. Over thinks formations and is ridiculously stubborn in his approach. 

That's a fair assessment and I'd imagine it covers the view of the majority of the support.

Essentially it brings us back to the situation we're in (whether any of us likes it or not) that we're backing him for next season.

Personally I still think it's the right thing to try but there's no doubt there'll be frustrations along the way.

What I would say is the reaction to our poorer performances post-ibrox is out of proportion to what they actually were over the 90 minutes but based on what came before. Which is understandable but rather pointless given - in practice - it's been written off with the fresh start it was deemed he deserved in January.

[crazylegsjoe_mfc]

Kettlewell is clearly not going to get the sack, so I don't waste much energy thinking whether he deserves it or not.

What you do have to remember is that despite how much he can baffle us with his formation, selection and substitutes, this year he's had a hell of a lot thrown in his direction. He's had to reduce the squad in quality and numbers, he's had several long term injuries and he's even had to contend with two of the bright spots in a poor run being recalled from loans in January.

I can't speak for everyone's aspirations but I often see Motherwell fans on here and elsewhere saying they'd be happy with 10th. I won't be relaxing until the arithmetic confirms it, but we are very much looking on course to do that now. I think it's hard to be critical of the manner in which we've gone about it.

If his decisions have cost us points this season, they've also won us points. I posted last week that goals and assists from substitutes alone are worth 10 points to us this season and that stat doesn't even cater for the likes of yesterday - O'Donnell changing position and being there to assist.

Since we got beaten by Ross County in December, we have actually become really hard to beat. It took Celtic until 94 minutes to take the lead and we would have had an equaliser against Aberdeen were it not for a VAR anomaly. Rangers and Hearts did deserve to beat us but didn't give us a going over. Those account for all of our league defeats since. I think it's 19 points in those 15 games since - that's not relegation form. We would really be getting rid of Kettlewell for something that happened months ago - which doesn't sit well with me. 

Not being delighted with his decisions doesn't always have to equate to him deserving the chop. I'm not sure if anyone was expecting the race to survival to be pretty and free flowing with a young manager and young players. I think the difference between this and other seasons (like last) is that we've previously gone on a fantastic run to beat any relegation fears, whereas this time we are doing just about enough.

Edited March 31 by crazylegsjoe_mfc

[eliphas]

It might just be my individual situation (40 odd year old, been going to FP for 30+ years, young family taking up more of my time).

But yesterday was really a prime example of how I am beginning to struggle with watching us. Probably should be happy getting a point from that but again come away with a very 'meh' feeling.  Aware of the various reasons but the lack of quality throughout and lack of tactical nous/plan B/managerial stubborness is wrestling me down I have to say. 

I'm not chucking my season ticket or anything but I'm finding increasingly easy to miss games for other events etc. 

Really really hope next season Kettlewell can build an identity that is pleasant to watch, has some sort of other system that doesn't rely on wingbacks and can get more MFC academy players into the team 

Edited March 31 by eliphas

[ropy]

Yesterday was the first real opportunity for me to get a proper look at Devine.  Specifically in the first half I didn’t think he brought much to the table.  Constantly rolled the ball back to SODs who got closed down, didn’t seem keen to take his man on.  I will look for more in future games.

Spittal was off it, he seemed to demand every ball but did little with it, then he started taking throw in, is this a thing? I have I missed this.

There were plenty runs being made by the front two which weren’t picked out and eventually Vale and Bair were involved in our goal so job done.

Gent looked dangerous all day.

I thought Halliday was anonymous and Davor was industrious.

We go again.

[capt_oats]

Fair play, this is an amusingly niche stat.

Moult's best league return in a full season was 15. With 7 games still to go it's not impossible that the big man matches that.

Edited March 31 by capt_oats

[Cedrics Mighty Well Army]

There used to be a guy sat along from me he shouted "Defenders, yer aw just lumps o' wid" frequently during the game no matter how well/badly they were doing. He'd would have exploded yesterday.

I'm a fan of Mugabe but his passing and clearing has been frightening of late.

[santheman]

1 hour ago, eliphas said:

It might just be my individual situation (40 odd year old, been going to FP for 30+ years, young family taking up more of my time).

But yesterday was really a prime example of how I am beginning to struggle with watching us. Probably should be happy getting a point from that but again come away with a very 'meh' feeling.  Aware of the various reasons but the lack of quality throughout and lack of tactical nous/plan B/managerial stubborness is wrestling me down I have to say. 

I'm not chucking my season ticket or anything but I'm finding increasingly easy to miss games for other events etc. 

Really really hope next season Kettlewell can build an identity that is pleasant to watch, has some sort of other system that doesn't rely on wingbacks and can get more MFC academy players into the team 

We were all saying the same yesterday where I sit.

Came to the conclusion that watching the same turgid football going on for 3 seasons now has dulled our expectations to the point where you just expect the same every game and become used to it.

That's more of an observation on the quality of the League and the fear factor of relegation.

Even more depressing is we all think it'll be more of the same for the foreseeable future continually trying to avoid the dreaded 2 bottom spots.

Of course we're probably not alone in thnking that amongst our support along with fans of other clubs in a similar position.

Ever optimistic I'll still renew my season ticket like I've done for 40 odd years and hope that next season is "the one".

 

 

[capt_oats]

2 hours ago, crazylegsjoe_mfc said:

Kettlewell is clearly not going to get the sack, so I don't waste much energy thinking whether he deserves it or not.

What you do have to remember is that despite how much he can baffle us with his formation, selection and substitutes, this year he's had a hell of a lot thrown in his direction. He's had to reduce the squad in quality and numbers, he's had several long term injuries and he's even had to contend with two of the bright spots in a poor run being recalled from loans in January.

I can't speak for everyone's aspirations but I often see Motherwell fans on here and elsewhere saying they'd be happy with 10th. I won't be relaxing until the arithmetic confirms it, but we are very much looking on course to do that now. I think it's hard to be critical of the manner in which we've gone about it.

If his decisions have cost us points this season, they've also won us points. I posted last week that goals and assists from substitutes alone are worth 10 points to us this season and that stat doesn't even cater for the likes of yesterday - O'Donnell changing position and being there to assist.

Since we got beaten by Ross County in December, we have actually become really hard to beat. It took Celtic until 94 minutes to take the lead and we would have had an equaliser against Aberdeen were it not for a VAR anomaly. Rangers and Hearts did deserve to beat us but didn't give us a going over. Those account for all of our league defeats since. I think it's 19 points in those 15 games since - that's not relegation form. We would really be getting rid of Kettlewell for something that happened months ago - which doesn't sit well with me. 

Not being delighted with his decisions doesn't always have to equate to him deserving the chop. I'm not sure if anyone was expecting the race to survival to be pretty and free flowing with a young manager and young players. I think the difference between this Andy other seasons (like last) is that we've previously gone on a fantastic run to beat any relegation fears, whereas this time we are doing just about enough.

Me. Agreeing with every word @crazylegsjoe_mfc just wrote there.

[MurrayWell]

2 hours ago, crazylegsjoe_mfc said:

Not being delighted with his decisions doesn't always have to equate to him deserving the chop. I'm not sure if anyone was expecting the race to survival to be pretty and free flowing with a young manager and young players. I think the difference between this Andy other seasons (like last) is that we've previously gone on a fantastic run to beat any relegation fears, whereas this time we are doing just about enough.

Think this is pretty much it, Kettlewell can frustrate with his decisions, or lack of decisions, but he's done pretty well all things considered this season. Without going over old ground that we shouldn't have re-signed him, I had the feeling yesterday he'd have liked to have had Obika (Hamstring) as an option to come on and go more direct with Bair, but didn't feel the other attacking options on the bench could do that job. 

I do think Kettlewell, in general, waits a bit too long to try and win games by making in-game changes. But as far as strengths go, the guy clearly knows how to get the most/best out of players, examples across the team this season and last of this. 

I really, really wish we'd learn how to defend set pieces. As soon as we conceded that ridiculous corner yesterday, ye knew we'd end up losing a goal from it, and it's really basic stuff. The defence really needs an overhaul, which I'd fully expect to happen in the summer, given the contract situations. 

On that subject, I don't really know what Blaney has to do to get a run. Outstanding at Ibrox, then dropped. Looked solid enough yesterday when he came on too. Seems like others can have absolute horror shows, repeatedly, and retain their place. 

[Handsome_Devil]

1 hour ago, eliphas said:

It might just be my individual situation (40 odd year old, been going to FP for 30+ years, young family taking up more of my time).

But yesterday was really a prime example of how I am beginning to struggle with watching us. Probably should be happy getting a point from that but again come away with a very 'meh' feeling.  Aware of the various reasons but the lack of quality throughout and lack of tactical nous/plan B/managerial stubborness is wrestling me down I have to say. 

No doubt the family thing plays a part but I suspect it's also just the modern world. Previously you'd only heavily talk about the game with your mates on Saturday, work a week and look forward to doing it again. Now we spend hours in between on social media and forums telling each other how shite we are, what a miserable season it is and, in some cases, the club is doomed as a long-term entity. And back then you hated to miss a game because more often that not there were no highlights either.

There are 228 games in a current top-flight season, the majority are like yesterday's - two sets of shite largely cancelling each other out and instantly forgettable. That's just the nature of where we are.

[Eliphas Pettigrew]

Maybe Derek Adams wasn't too far off the mark with his assessment of Scottish football 

[wellboy1991]

2 hours ago, eliphas said:

It might just be my individual situation (40 odd year old, been going to FP for 30+ years, young family taking up more of my time).

But yesterday was really a prime example of how I am beginning to struggle with watching us. Probably should be happy getting a point from that but again come away with a very 'meh' feeling.  Aware of the various reasons but the lack of quality throughout and lack of tactical nous/plan B/managerial stubborness is wrestling me down I have to say. 

I'm not chucking my season ticket or anything but I'm finding increasingly easy to miss games for other events etc. 

Really really hope next season Kettlewell can build an identity that is pleasant to watch, has some sort of other system that doesn't rely on wingbacks and can get more MFC academy players into the team 

That’s exactly how I am feeling and how I felt walking out the game yesterday. Actually feeling very meh about the club at the moment.

Just something about this team and some of the the players which I just can’t seem to gel with. Lack of fight, error strewn, no leadership, I just don’t know. I can’t put my finger on it. 

Where as watching wee Gent and Davor both give they’re all. Trying to encourage and lead from the front I get that and enjoy it.  

[Vietnam91]

3 hours ago, crazylegsjoe_mfc said:

If his decisions have cost us points this season, they've also won us points. I posted last week that goals and assists from substitutes alone are worth 10 points to us this season and that stat doesn't even cater for the likes of yesterday - O'Donnell changing position and being there to assist.

Surely that stat only works if another manager wouldn't have introduced subs or tried to change things up to get a result? Appreciate it is sliding doors stuff but not unique to anyone who has the means to change things.

This stat here shows the further our players are away from his direct instructions, the better we do. Also, we're the only club to have two red stats in bold, surpassing Livi and Ross County. The 16-30 and 46-60 goal windows has killed us all season long. Our goals in the last 15 minutes puts us with the top 5 at present, difference is they are scoring to tuck away results and we're doing it to salvage them.

 

The other red flag is our clean sheets, we're worst in the league and managed 10% (3 games), next worst, Aberdeen/Livi on 16%/17% (5 games). The two teams we were looking to overhaul for top 6 are on approx. 30% (9 games and 3x better) and one of those has Ricki Lamie as a mainstay.