capt_oats Posted October 18, 2019 Share Posted October 18, 2019 (edited) Frear re-signs for Forest Green Rovers. By my count that just leaves ATS, Mbulu and Ross McCormack from last season's first team squad without clubs. Edited October 18, 2019 by capt_oats 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YassinMoutaouakil Posted October 20, 2019 Share Posted October 20, 2019 I'm actually pretty interested to see how we set up at Ibrox now- not interested enough to spend £28 attending like, but still, interested. Robinson's seemed relatively zen in his post match interview, compared to other seasons where he hasn't been afraid to chuck people under the bus if they're percieved to have underperformed, so I'm not really expecting wholesale changes. It wouldn't surprise me if we start a 4-3-3 again and just go for it. By the law of averages that's bound to work against one of the better teams eventually, but I'd imagine a bit of a doing is far more likely. On 18/10/2019 at 16:19, capt_oats said: By my count that just leaves ATS, Mbulu and Ross McCormack from last season's first team squad without clubs. Bigi too I think. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndyRoss Posted October 20, 2019 Share Posted October 20, 2019 Next Sunday has the feeling of a game we really need to just get through without being on the end of a heavy defeat (see last season). This squad have shown their abilities to recover from poor performances/results so far this season, but they've also had the opportunity to do so against some of the weaker sides in the league. Never a fan of just writing off games, but the Killie and Livingston double header is far more important than the Rangers and Celtic games that bookend those two. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
capt_oats Posted October 20, 2019 Share Posted October 20, 2019 (edited) 1 hour ago, YassinMoutaouakil said: I'm actually pretty interested to see how we set up at Ibrox now- not interested enough to spend £28 attending like, but still, interested. Robinson's seemed relatively zen in his post match interview, compared to other seasons where he hasn't been afraid to chuck people under the bus if they're perceived to have underperformed, so I'm not really expecting wholesale changes. It wouldn't surprise me if we start a 4-3-3 again and just go for it. By the law of averages that's bound to work against one of the better teams eventually, but I'd imagine a bit of a doing is far more likely. I was thinking about this earlier after you were talking about the 433 in the match thread. I think the league position and the fact we have a bit of breathing space means that we'll probably stick with what's largely worked so far this season (we're still unbeaten away from home - well...until next Sunday) so it's kind of a "if it's not broken don't fix it"-type of attitude. We're probably better sticking with what we're trying to do and learn from the mistakes. It was (mildly) interesting that we finished yesterday 442 with Cole and Long as a pair though. Thing is in this league teams generally don't take too long to suss you out so I'm actually quite curious what our alternatives might be. We've got a ton of CMs and a pair of quite inconsistent wingers. I'm not averse to the 352 if we do it right but given how vocal and pointed Robinson's been about the change of style I'd be surprised if we saw it make a re-appearance anytime soon. Would something like a 4312 be an option? We tried going to Ibrox with a 442 (Diamond) last season and took 7 (albeit down to 10 men) so I don't see it making an appearance next week but 2 strikers who like to pull wide and run the channels with #10 in behind kind of suits some of the players we have. For clarity I've just added Hylton, Seedorf and Ilic in as forwards as I can't put them anywhere else in that formation. Edited October 20, 2019 by capt_oats 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Casagolda Posted October 21, 2019 Author Share Posted October 21, 2019 (edited) Saturday was either the start of managers beginning to work us out, or simply just an absolute shitshow from us similar to the Hearts cup game. Time will tell I suppose but I don’t think Robinson will change too much after one bad performance. Still don’t think we’re any closer to solving the Long/Cole conundrum. Both continue to show they have ability but I’m not convinced either is entirely suited to the role they’re being asked to play. I do think Saturday settled any Tait vs Carroll debate though. From now on the debate should really be Tait or Grimshaw. Agree with the above, Sunday is always one to avoid for me personally. However after that, I think the Killie/Livi double header at Fir Park should give us a decent indication of which way our season is headed. Edited October 21, 2019 by Casagolda 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luke92 Posted October 21, 2019 Share Posted October 21, 2019 I wasn't overly pissed off after Saturday's gubbing, probably just because of the general goodwill the team has built up over the season thus far. We were really honking though, like it was a bit scary at times just how easily Aberdeen appeared to cut through us. On another day the scoreline could have been a lot more. Hartley being the obvious miss but in the middle of the park noone seemed to be there to actually win the ball. Hopefully just an off day I think we need to expect inconsistency with this group. Despite this, personally I wouldn't be tinkering too much with the formation going to Ibrox. My feeling would be to go for a more defensive looking structure of our current 433 shape so basically a 451. I'd probably stick Scott back at #9 or revert back to Devante Cole. I thought Long's hold up play on Saturday was pretty bad, obviously not his game but I think Cole atleast gives you a presence and puts himself about a lot more. On the wing I'd think we need to perhaps sacrifice one of our attacking boys for someone who can actually track back 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Desp Posted October 21, 2019 Share Posted October 21, 2019 I'm generally not one to go overboard when we're doing well, so I'm not going to lose my shit over what happened on Saturday. If the early penalty goes in, it's a completely different game I feel. I think we can just call it a very bad day at the office. I think Robinson is in the same boat as most of us in that he can't decide who to stick with up front. I like the look of Long, he can get certainly put himself about and will certainly run himself into the ground, but he looks like a guy who'll chip in with seven or eight goals a season. What's his best return in a season down south? @capt_oats? I think if you could merge Long & Cole together, you'd have what we're looking for. Agree with @Casagolda on the Tait/Carroll issue. If Carroll is fit and available, get him a left back. Let Tait fight it out with Grimshaw for the right back spot. I'm not fussed about Sunday at all. I think we'll lose by three or four. Hopefully we're able to bounce back for two important home games against Killie & Livingston. After 12 games, it'll be interesting to see where we are at. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
capt_oats Posted October 21, 2019 Share Posted October 21, 2019 (edited) Aye, tbh there's no real reason to change much at the moment. Definitely not enough to rip things up and start again - certainly not with regards shape but I think there are probably questions about whether we can change things up a bit with personnel without going mental. As @YassinMoutaouakil hinted at in the match thread there's a certain amount of predictability with our line up. Which isn't necessarily a bad thing. Most managers are keen to get a settled XI but I think Carroll's nailed his place at left back by being out the side. I realise this is very fucking dry but given our previous history and Robinson's "get balls into the box" mantra - very few of our goals so far this season have come from "getting the ball wide and getting crosses in". Which is interesting (to me at least) given we're playing with 2 wingers/wide players. Watching Seedorf cutting into the box/hitting the byline and having a shot as often as he has is difficult to miss while Tait's delivery from wide is miles from what we were talking about a couple of seasons ago. Tbh, given his age and him coming from u23s football Seedorf's actually been more of a success than I expected but I wonder if there's a similarity to Hastie last season in that the "surprise" element may be less of a thing. All that isn't a criticism, more an observation. Thinking back to Moult's first couple of seasons and the number of goals he scored simply by standing in the 6 yard box tapping them in compared to this season where we're looking at players having digs from all angles is a bit of a sea change. The stat that we've had more shots at goal than anyone outside of Celtic and Rangers isn't really that much of a surprise in that respect. There's a helpful playlist here of every goal we've scored this season. Sadsack that I am I've listed them below with a brief description. Spoiler Long vs St Mirren - shot (inside box - individual) Scott vs St Mirren - shot (outside box - individual) Cole vs St Johnstone - shot (inside box - from corner) Campbell vs Ross County - shot (outside box from Scott square pass) Hylton vs Hearts - shot (inside box - individual) Seedorf vs Hearts - shot (outside box - individual) Gallagher vs Hearts - header (inside box - from corner) Hylton vs Hibs - shot (inside box - individual) Donnelly vs Hibs - penalty Seedorf vs Hibs - shot (outside box - individual) Long vs Hamilton - shot (inside box - individual) Hartley vs Hamilton - header (inside box - from corner) Long vs Hearts - shot (inside box - through ball) Donnelly vs Celtic - shot (inside box - from corner) Donnelly vs Celtic - shot (outside box - Gallagher knockdown from Polworth diag) Scott vs Annan - shot (inside box - individual) Donnelly vs Annan - shot (outside box) Polworth vs Annan - shot (inside box - rebound from saved shot) Donnelly va Annan - shot from Chris Long cross Ilic vs Dumbarton - shot (inside box from squared Campbell pass) Hartley vs Dumbarton - header (inside box - from corner) Hylton vs Morton - shot (outside box - 2nd phase from cleared Tait cross) Donnelly vs Morton - shot (inside box - 2nd phase from cleared Ilic cross) Scott vs Morton - shot (inside box from squared Polworth pass) Scott vs Morton - shot (inside box from squared Seedorf pass) Hylton vs QOTS - shot (outside box - individual) Seedorf vs QOTS - shot (inside box - individual) Donnelly vs QOTS - penalty @Desp - Chris Long's best return in a season is 9 in 38. 17/18 with Northampton. So you're pretty much spot on with that shout. FWIW: Devante is 12 in 34 17/18 at Fleetwood which seems to have been the season that got him his move to Wigan. Edited October 21, 2019 by capt_oats 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Hahn Posted October 21, 2019 Share Posted October 21, 2019 39 minutes ago, Luke92 said: I wasn't overly pissed off after Saturday's gubbing, probably just because of the general goodwill the team has built up over the season thus far. We were really honking though, like it was a bit scary at times just how easily Aberdeen appeared to cut through us. On another day the scoreline could have been a lot more. Hartley being the obvious miss but in the middle of the park noone seemed to be there to actually win the ball. Hopefully just an off day I think we need to expect inconsistency with this group. Despite this, personally I wouldn't be tinkering too much with the formation going to Ibrox. My feeling would be to go for a more defensive looking structure of our current 433 shape so basically a 451. I'd probably stick Scott back at #9 or revert back to Devante Cole. I thought Long's hold up play on Saturday was pretty bad, obviously not his game but I think Cole atleast gives you a presence and puts himself about a lot more. On the wing I'd think we need to perhaps sacrifice one of our attacking boys for someone who can actually track back I realise this came from Long's mouth himself to a certain extent but he needs to have some ability to hold the ball up. He can't be expecting every ball he ever receives to be an on-the-money through ball that he can chase. Fair enough, his main game is running in behind but if his hold up play is shite and he doesn't seem to be improving, I suspect his number of starts will reflect this and I'd be more inclined to go for Cole/Scott who have more balanced games. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Casagolda Posted October 21, 2019 Author Share Posted October 21, 2019 To be fair to Long, I don’t think Saturday’s game was the best one to judge him on. Seedorf was guff, Scott’s head dropped after the penalty miss, Campbell was well below par and Polworth produced his worst display of the season. As such, Long didn’t exactly have a great deal to work with in terms of support or service. Yet he still ‘won’ us a penalty and was unlucky with his own effort that struck the post. Our two best chances on Saturday, pretty much all of his own making. I agree the other side of his game could do with some work but I’m not sure based on what I’ve seen so far, that Cole would have made any great difference on Saturday. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
capt_oats Posted October 21, 2019 Share Posted October 21, 2019 (edited) On the Cole vs Long thing I agree with @Desp's point that if we could combine the two we'd pretty much have what we're looking for. I can't help but wonder if either were actually meant to be starting as a #9 for us. I've no idea how much of Robinson's quotes in PRs are ghosted but his chat about Cole at the time was: “He’s quick and his stats prove he is a natural finisher. Crucially, he’s also adept and playing wider and some of his best and most productive football has came from the flanks." Reading that I'm curious if he was initially earmarked as someone to do the job Scott's doing at the moment. Clearly he can play through the middle but not having looked too far back into his career I'm not sure how often he's been a lone, central striker or part of a pair. In Long's case he initially took the #12 shirt (again reading into things much) but given the positives in his game then chucking him on when the game's a bit more stretched seems to fit especially bearing in mind that 2 of his 3 goals so far have come on in exactly those circumstances and only a cracking save prevented him scoring against Hearts at Tynecastle after he'd been subbed on. Robinson was open about the fact that we thought/hoped we had a deal for an unnamed striker over the line and we were holding out for someone very specific so it's possible we're just having to make do. Let's call the mystery striker K.Lafferty. No, that's too obvious - Kyle L then it'd have left wide options of Cole, Hylton, Seedorf and Ilic with Long and Scott as two back-ups (plus a punt on Manzinga). As it stands we really only have Cole and Long as realistic shouts as the #9 with Manzinga in that grey area between first team and Reserves and Scott getting his minutes out wide. I'm not down on either tbh. I like Cole's willingness to drop a bit deeper and pick the ball up on the turn and run at defences which also allows the midfielders to get beyond (see Campbell's goal against County) and Long will clearly put in a shift, be a pest in the channels and as @Casagolda says in the post above he's able to carve out chances on his own - the goal against Accies was out of nowhere. Those are all good qualities but they definitely need work on how it fits together. Edited October 21, 2019 by capt_oats 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YassinMoutaouakil Posted October 21, 2019 Share Posted October 21, 2019 (edited) I get the feeling Polworth is only ever going to be one game away from needing smuggled out of Fir Park to avoid a lynching from the East Stand. Despite being more or less unanimous MotM against St Maureen last time out he was getting absolute pelters around me on Saturday. Edited October 21, 2019 by YassinMoutaouakil 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lobby Dossar Posted October 21, 2019 Share Posted October 21, 2019 1 hour ago, Casagolda said: Polworth produced his worst display of the season. Don’t think that he did Aberdeen did their homework and were set up to negate him …… and it worked a treat as far as they were concerned 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Desp Posted October 21, 2019 Share Posted October 21, 2019 25 minutes ago, Lobby Dossar said: Don’t think that he did Aberdeen did their homework and were set up to negate him …… and it worked a treat as far as they were concerned Yeah I would agree with this. I watched him closely in the first half and he took up some great positions in between the lines on a number of occasions, but he never received the ball. I was always going to be tough with the way Aberdeen set-up, but he certainly kept trying things. He certainly was no worse than the rest of the team. With the way he strikes a ball, I'd have him on penalties if Donnelly is unavailable. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Swello Posted October 21, 2019 Share Posted October 21, 2019 54 minutes ago, YassinMoutaouakil said: I get the feeling Polworth is only ever going to be one game away from needing smuggled out of Fir Park to avoid a lynching from the East Stand. Despite being more or less unanimous MotM against St Maureen last time out he was getting absolute pelters around me on Saturday. Peak East Staun. He wasn't just MOTM against St Mirren - he along with Gallacher and Campbell have been our best players this season full stop and if anyone is allowed an off-day, it's him (and judging by what I saw watching the game on my phone, there were a lot of off-days on Saturday). 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YassinMoutaouakil Posted October 21, 2019 Share Posted October 21, 2019 (edited) I've found it a bit weird that out of our 5 option for the front three- I refuse to include Ilic or Manzinga- Scott seems to be the only undisputed starter, despite probably contributing the least so far, both in hard stats (league goals) and general performances, if you adjust for minutes. Don't get me wrong, I absolutely love the big guy and he's improved an obscene amount in the last eight months or whatever. I'm sure the game time he's currently getting will help turn him into a great player for us going forward, and it's not even a case of him deserving to be dropped tbh. I just think we've got 5 options of pretty similar quality, and I'm not sure he's done enough to nail down one of those spots yet. Not suggesting this for Ibrox, but I'd like to see a Seedorf- Cole - Long trio at some point, hopefully similar to the first half of 2016 where Marvin was ostensibly the winger in McGhee's 4-3-3 but switched pretty fluidly with Moult and McDonald. Edited October 21, 2019 by YassinMoutaouakil 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
capt_oats Posted October 21, 2019 Share Posted October 21, 2019 (edited) 1 hour ago, YassinMoutaouakil said: I've found it a bit weird that out of our 5 option for the front three- I refuse to include Ilic or Manzinga- Scott seems to be the only undisputed starter, despite probably contributing the least so far, both in hard stats (league goals) and general performances. Don't get me wrong, I absolutely love the big guy and he's improved an obscene amount in the last eight months or whatever. I'm sure the game time he's currently getting will help turn him into a great player for us going forward, and it's not even a case of him deserving to be dropped tbh. I just think we've got 5 options of pretty similar quality, and I'm not sure he's done enough to nail down one of those spots yet. Not suggesting this for Ibrox, but I'd like to see a Seedorf- Cole - Long trio at some point, hopefully similar to the first half of 2016 where Marvin was ostensibly the winger in McGhee's 4-3-3 but switched pretty fluidly with Moult and McDonald. Interesting you say this as I found myself trawling through the old highlights last week and was looking at the games from that short-lived McGhee era of being good (roughly Dec 15 - May 16, skipping the 6-0 at Tynecastle and 7-0 at Parkhead obvs) and thought it's a pretty under-appreciated spell much like @thisGRAEME's eulogising the fleeting beauty of the Thunderdome. Looking at the midfield 3 you'd maybe have to swap Polworth and Campbell as I don't think Campbell would be as suited to the Cadden/Grimshaw role in that shape. Then again our midfield 3 rotate a lot so who knows. It's definitely something that would be worth having a look at. As an aside, this game below: Keiran Kennedy, Jack Leitch, Morgaro Gomis, Wes Fletcher all getting a run out. Edited October 21, 2019 by capt_oats 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thisGRAEME Posted October 21, 2019 Share Posted October 21, 2019 Hahahaha that's the game that Moult absolutely bullies Mark Reynolds out of existence isn't it 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
capt_oats Posted October 21, 2019 Share Posted October 21, 2019 (edited) 24 minutes ago, thisGRAEME said: Hahahaha that's the game that Moult absolutely bullies Mark Reynolds out of existence isn't it Yes. Yes it is. Edited October 21, 2019 by capt_oats 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dons_1988 Posted October 21, 2019 Share Posted October 21, 2019 You killed our dreams that day. No need to laugh about it. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.