Motherwell FC - A Thread For All Seasons

[Jim McLean's Ghost]

I've got no problem with Hastie coming back.

It isn't like we treated him particularly well. We had no wingers but still punted him out on loan to Alloa.

Came back, smashed in some goals and then took the best offer available to him. Was that burst of form enough to make him a certain starter for us?  I'm sure we would have signed other wide options and a drop in form would have seen him on the bench.

[Londonwell]

1 minute ago, Yorky said:

Yes, I don’t think we have spent a fortune here, O’Hara probably the biggest deal. I don’t believe Lamie/White/Fox/McGinley will be on huge contracts. I think we are all feeling pretty confident but I’m sure we are all also aware that we are still taking a punt on one or two of these rising to the challenge, White and McGinley have never played at this level, Fox is a back up, and Lamie dropped out of the Livingstone first 11.

Oh aye, such is life. I'm so buzzing for next season its surely bound for disaster, you feel me bro?  @MJC

[Genuine Hibs Fan]

13 minutes ago, capt_oats said:

I don't have an in depth knowledge of our finances but I've a feeling this is probably an example of our business model working in our favour.

AFAIK we generally run with one of the lower budgets in the league...essentially we budget based on finishing 10th. Clearly last season we finished 3rd* and we also sold James Scott to Hull for £1m rising to a potential £1.5m - that's along with a couple of Academy sales to Leeds and Norwich last summer.

It's back of a fag packet sort of numbers but roughly with prize money and player sales that's £2m-ish income we probably didn't budget for.

Also, the way the squad's been built at the moment; we released 7 players and 3 loans returned to their parent clubs so that's 10 bodies out with 5 in plus the Hastie loan and 5 extended deals of which Dunne will presumably on significantly less than his previous contract given his injuries.

I don't think it'd be too outrageous to suggest that on the whole the players who have come in will be in line with the budget we have available. I mean I have no doubt our budget's tight but given the fan ownership business we don't really have a safety net to run a risk.

The interesting part for me is that almost all our recruitment - barring McGinley - has seen players coming in who are known quantities and as @YassinMoutaouakil pointed out are relatively local. Even McGinley had previously worked with our Head of Sports Science when they were both at Boro. 

It's a pretty notable shift away from our brand  of trawling the English lower leagues:

• Ricki Lamie - Tony Watt's best pal & former team mate of Declan Gallagher,
• Jordan White - played with Gallagher at Livi,
• Scott Fox - worked with our GK coach at Thistle and at Celtic around the same time as Gallagher
• Nathan McGinley - at Boro with Andy Boles
• Mark O'Hara - was on loan last season
• Jake Hastie - well...it's fair to say we're aware of him

Thanks very much for that, that's sort of what I thought but couldn't be bothered doing the research! I was worried what I had said came across as a bit "Tick Tock" type trolling but obviously not. Yeah, the club and Robinson's ability to pivot strategies and be quite "nimble" in how they do things is really fascinating. In the world of whole club cultures etc Motherwell seem happy to adapt their planning year on year, with developing youngsters being the one constant.    

[crazylegsjoe_mfc]

1 minute ago, Jim McLean's Ghost said:

I've got no problem with Hastie coming back.

It isn't like we treated him particularly well. We had no wingers but still punted him out on loan to Alloa.

Came back, smashed in some goals and then took the best offer available to him. Was that burst of form enough to make him a certain starter for us?  I'm sure we would have signed other wide options and a drop in form would have seen him on the bench.

This is exactly why I find him leaving an almost blameless situation. He came back from two loan spells where it's safe to say he done reasonably well without setting the heather on fire and the club made a call to give him a make or break six months.

I don't think anyone, Stephen Robinson and Jake Hastie included, thought he would come in and do quite as well as he did. I don't blame the club for not having a player they weren't quite sure about tied down on a Jim McLean-esque contract and similarly I don't blame someone who had an individual championship goal by Christmas for Alloa signing a contract worth probably close to a million in May.

[capt_oats]

Flow indicating we're still looking to add "a bit more" to the forward area.

 

[santheman]

I've noticed a lot of posters saying that they're expecting one of our midfielders (Campbell being the one most touted) to be sold in the near future but no-one has really expanded on why they think that.

Just wondered what everyone's reasoning behind it is as we SEEM to be on a sound footing financially and operating within budgets as far as I can see.

[Yorky]

1 minute ago, santheman said:

I've noticed a lot of posters saying that they're expecting one of our midfielders (Campbell being the one most touted) to be sold in the near future but no-one has really expanded on why they think that.

Just wondered what everyone's reasoning behind it is as we SEEM to be on a sound footing financially and operating within budgets as far as I can see.

I think the signing of O’Hara was seen as the club bringing in another midfielder in advance of one possibly leaving.

[Ron Aldo]

I never said you wouldnt?
Someone asked if he could play for Rangers in Europe, and he can only, presumably, go back to them after January. 

Sorry - just a wee joke. The only way we'll be in Europe come January is if the Europa League qualifiers get pushed back until then.

[welldaft]

1 hour ago, capt_oats said:

I don't have an in depth knowledge of our finances but I've a feeling this is probably an example of our business model working in our favour.

AFAIK we generally run with one of the lower budgets in the league...essentially we budget based on finishing 10th. Clearly last season we finished 3rd* and we also sold James Scott to Hull for £1m rising to a potential £1.5m - that's along with a couple of Academy sales to Leeds and Norwich last summer.

It's back of a fag packet sort of numbers but roughly with prize money and player sales that's £2m-ish income we probably didn't budget for.

Also, the way the squad's been built at the moment; we released 7 players and 3 loans returned to their parent clubs so that's 10 bodies out with 5 in plus the Hastie loan and 5 extended deals of which Dunne will presumably on significantly less than his previous contract given his injuries.

I don't think it'd be too outrageous to suggest that on the whole the players who have come in will be in line with the budget we have available. I mean I have no doubt our budget's tight but given the fan ownership business we don't really have a safety net to run a risk.

The interesting part for me is that almost all our recruitment - barring McGinley - has seen players coming in who are known quantities and as @YassinMoutaouakil pointed out are relatively local. Even McGinley had previously worked with our Head of Sports Science when they were both at Boro. 

It's a pretty notable shift away from our brand  of trawling the English lower leagues:

• Ricki Lamie - Tony Watt's best pal & former team mate of Declan Gallagher,
• Jordan White - played with Gallagher at Livi,
• Scott Fox - worked with our GK coach at Thistle and at Celtic around the same time as Gallagher
• Nathan McGinley - at Boro with Andy Boles
• Mark O'Hara - was on loan last season
• Jake Hastie - well...it's fair to say we're aware of him

All valid points. 

I was also doing back of the fag packets calculations. The conclusion I came too is that our lost revenue from gate and hospitality receipts from the end of last season would actually have been offset by receiving 2-3 months of furlough payments. Of course if we go into the new season and have more than a handful of home games + one v the old firm without crowds that could change. 

Also the Europa league to consider. End of August but I am concerned that the Scot Gov wants to wait until no one has the disease before crowds are allowed back. Which could mean 2025 Taking the piss of course.......or am I ?

 

[Ron Aldo]

That's Gillespie officially signed for Newcastle.

[capt_oats]

1 hour ago, santheman said:

I've noticed a lot of posters saying that they're expecting one of our midfielders (Campbell being the one most touted) to be sold in the near future but no-one has really expanded on why they think that.

Just wondered what everyone's reasoning behind it is as we SEEM to be on a sound footing financially and operating within budgets as far as I can see.

I suppose part of the expectation comes from knowing part of our business model is focussed on player trading so while me may not need to sell in the way we were when McCormack, Murphy and Reynolds were moved on it's viewed as desirable because it's an element of the whole project and sales pitch: Come to Motherwell and we'll offer you a platform and help develop your career.

Campbell's in the position where he's got a year left on his contract but would be protected by development compensation. You'd think we'd be mindful of what happened less so with Hastie but more so with Cadden in terms of that scenario.

Also (and sort of related), as @Ron Aldo says...Gillespie to Newcastle on a shree year deal official. Absolutely fair fucks.

 

Edited July 3, 2020 by capt_oats

[Busta Nut]

1 hour ago, santheman said:

I've noticed a lot of posters saying that they're expecting one of our midfielders (Campbell being the one most touted) to be sold in the near future but no-one has really expanded on why they think that.

Just wondered what everyone's reasoning behind it is as we SEEM to be on a sound footing financially and operating within budgets as far as I can see.

We are a selling club. Even if we are on good ground if there is a decent bid folk are leaving.

David Turnbull to Newcastle at a guess.

 

 

1 hour ago, Ron Aldo said:

That's Gillespie officially signed for Newcastle.

Fair fucking play! probably on about £15k a week.

[welldaft]

4 minutes ago, Busta Nut said:

We are a selling club. Even if we are on good ground if there is a decent bid folk are leaving.

David Turnbull to Newcastle at a guess.

 

 

Fair fucking play! probably on about £15k a week.

If I were a semi decent goalie in lower leagues I would be making a bee line to Fir Park.

How many other clubs have (potentially) had 3 keepers that have gone on to play for 3 EPL clubs ? 

Ruddy > Randolph > Gillespie. 

Throw in International caps into the bargain and you can also include Carson. 

Almost bizarre in some ways. 

[Busta Nut]

Defo. Guys are coming from the league 2/conference and spending 2/3 years here before moving to decent sized English clubs and making 3 times what they were here.

[supermarv]

Just now, Busta Nut said:

Defo. Guys are coming from the league 2/conference and spending 2/3 years here before moving to decent sized English clubs and making 3 times what they were here.

Could be a possibility of bringing back a player we did that for... 

[Jim McLean's Ghost]

2 minutes ago, supermarv said:

Could be a possibility of bringing back a player we did that for... 

You can't tease us with Louis Moult like that.

[supermarv]

Just now, Jim McLean's Ghost said:

You can't tease us with Louis Moult like that.

There’s a possibility, we have enquired about it, we were also looking at Marvin Johnson before the lockdown but not heard anything else on that, Cole is another possibility. All depends on if Long is staying or not.

[Busta Nut]

SuperITKMarv you teasy slag

[Yorky]

26 minutes ago, supermarv said:

There’s a possibility, we have enquired about it, we were also looking at Marvin Johnson before the lockdown but not heard anything else on that, Cole is another possibility. All depends on if Long is staying or not.

Jesus if Moult and Johnson came back we would looking at one hell of a team.

[supermarv]

33 minutes ago, Yorky said:

Jesus if Moult and Johnson came back we would looking at one hell of a team.

Not entirely sure on Johnson I don’t know if it’s still a thing or not but he’s pretty much of the picture at Middlesbrough so could still be on the cards. Definitely something in the Moult thing though.