Double Winning St Johnstone FC Thread

[tree house tam]

14 minutes ago, mizfit said:

Yup, a new manager bounce is guaranteed by changing managers. Just look at Aberdeen and Dundee for what wonders can happen.

Do you like what you see with Saints? Excited to go to the football every Saturday?

If so why? If not why?

[Radford]

19 minutes ago, mizfit said:

Yup, a new manager bounce is guaranteed by changing managers. Just look at Aberdeen and Dundee for what wonders can happen.

You are of course correct. But look at it longer-term. Staying up or going down with this manager. Are we not just delaying the inevitable? And are we really better placed come, say, October, if we scrape survival and let him work his magic over the summer? 

If this group are so behind the manager that we definitely won't get a bounce, then they are doing a good job of disguising it. The player that has really stepped up since January is that one that wants to stick it to Callum Davidson.

[mizfit]

Do you like what you see with Saints? Excited to go to the football every Saturday?
If so why? If not why?

I’d love to see better football now, but that’s out the window. Just do whatever we can do stay ahead of Dundee and try and Nick 10th if we’re lucky enough. This season has been a write off and there is so much more we could’ve done better.

My main concern is if Davidson resigns/quits we don’t get a new manager bounce and end up like Dundee. Regardless end of the season he needs to be made aware if he’s staying on another season like this is not acceptable. We’ve waited too long to consider a new manager, if we were going down that route it would’ve happened after the Kelty or Dundee game.

[PauloPerth]

Agree with Mizfit.  Recent results should see us finishing 11th. I definitely wouldn’t get rid of Davidson now.

Can anyone point to a ‘new manager bounce’ at a single club who’ve had a new manager during this season? Aberdeen, Hibs, St Mirren, Dundee. 4 of our 5 fellow bottom six clubs.

There was plenty of fight in the team in the previous couple of matches, I don’t think that’s been an issue. We just got absolutely everything wrong yesterday and paid the price. 
 

 

 

[shibbydoo]

Davidson should stay until the summer, but I couldn't care less whether he keeps us up or relegates us - he needs to go.

His brand of football is utter shite and I don't want to watch it next season in the Premier or the Championship.

Thanks Callum but get tae f**k in the summer.

[Radford]

On the fixtures, we'll have to go to Aberdeen, Hibs or St Mirren for a third time. Dundee will get the same team at home again I suspect, unless they make it unnecessarily complicated under some misguided pretence of fairness.

[tree house tam]

Davidson will get to the summer at the very least of that there is no doubt. I probably want him to stay till then anyway, there really isn't any point in changing it with 5 to go. Unless we win our next 5 games then I'd say I want him gone in the summer. Every part of this season has been a failure. Team tactics, player sales and recruitment,  the pitch, the not having anything celebrating a historic double, everything. Utter shambles.

[The Saintee]

21 minutes ago, tree house tam said:

Davidson will get to the summer at the very least of that there is no doubt. I probably want him to stay till then anyway, there really isn't any point in changing it with 5 to go. Unless we win our next 5 games then I'd say I want him gone in the summer. Every part of this season has been a failure. Team tactics, player sales and recruitment,  the pitch, the not having anything celebrating a historic double, everything. Utter shambles.

Yet the myth of the well run club persists. When in reality a lot what goes on is absolutely amateurish.

Edited April 10, 2022 by The Saintee

[Zamora Fan]

I’m in the “get rid in the summer”
camp with the manager but would still be delighted if Brown suddenly binned him now out of the blue. For me it’s simple: I used to look forward to games, I don’t anymore. Was proper buzzed to get back after lockdown and the cup double and all excitement has evaporated after less than a year.

Is it unfair to point out some of our better results recently have come with Macca in the dugout? Even when things were good last season never got much of a sense Davidson can positively influence a game. Take yesterday for example, 3-0 at half time. You expect an improvement in the second half and for us to at least be more organised defensively and keep it tighter. Instead we lose another 4 and have fucked our GD. The Macca that played for us would have chucked a lot more than a hairdryer at the players at HT if he was in charge - I just can’t imagine much passion from Davidson and it showed in how the players didn’t react at all in the second half.

No chance Brown bins him now imo but surely he has to have doubts about giving him anymore money to spend after what looks like a complete waste of decent fees on Vertainen, Bair and Mahon. At this stage I think unlikely more than 1/3 makes it with us. And this doesn’t even take into account any of the shite we’ve given lengthy contracts to either.

[Radford]

Davidson came in with this pre-determined plan to coach the team into this 5-2-3. 

It suited the players, as it transpired, and other Premiership sides couldn't deal with a side that had centre backs stepping up and passing and wing backs moving high and early.

This was Gary Rowett's tactic but that didn't matter, Davidson was coaching it well and it brought success.

What we are now learning is that Davidson was going to impose his back five foundation on the players come what may and there was a large element of good fortune that we had the personnel to suit it.

Football can evolve at an alarming rate but Davidson hasn't. You could see from his summer recruitment that he didn't even countenance the same system not working, despite opposition teams having had a chance to analyse it and the likelihood of us having different players.

January then presented the opportunity to either make us more flexible or sign the type of player he needed. No real surprise he opted for the latter. That is Callum Davidson. Dull and out of ideas. And he only had one in the first place.

[PauloPerth]

I think starting this season with an even weaker forward line after struggling so badly for goals the previous one was criminal.

[tree house tam]

13 minutes ago, PauloPerth said:

I think starting this season with an even weaker forward line after struggling so badly for goals the previous one was criminal.

This.

It's worth noting even before we sold Ali and Jason we never won a game this season. We battered Ross County away, draw. Did well away to Galatasaray and LASK, draws. Motherwell, draw. Against 10 man United and St Mirren, draws.

We were crying out for a goalscorer and the club failed, utterly failed. Then we sell our two best players and the rest is history. Only club in history to win a double and totally f**k everything after.

[Sh*teAndMuck]

I still can’t get my head round this manager and a lot of this team won the cup double last year. 

[Radford]

9 minutes ago, Sh*teAndMuck said:

I still can’t get my head round this manager and a lot of this team won the cup double last year. 

It's fine margins. If all the pieces fit, a system and the players in it can thrive. 

Kerr loved bombing forward. You knew you could ping the ball wide and Tanser and Rooney would win it aerially. When they did you knew the one-man machine that was McCann was buzzing in there to pick it up. 

The league is full of nippy buggers like Kane, Brophy, Main, Anderson, Mullen etc... Effective but the sort that centre backs are used to. Melamed brought far more intelligence (he had SEVEN shots alone in that early start at Tannadice) and kept us fresh.

Last season was very good but what has, in my opinion, become clear is it was far more stumbled upon than some sort of genius foresight from Davidson.

[Johnstoun]

It's possible it was also easier to strangle the life out of games last season without crowds to inject a sense of urgency.

[ayaye]

On radio before the game yesterday, after reading out the Saints team the pundit mentioned that one of the Saints staff (don't know who) suggested our formation might quickly adapt to 5-5-0. I get that Celtic are good, but I find it absolutely frightening how pervasive this defend at all costs mentality has become. When the opposition defence know beforehand that they won't need to defend, it is little wonder that they can each rack up over 100 passes.

I like Davidson and I imagine once he learns how to be more adaptable he will continue to do well in management, but he shouldn't learn to do this at St Johnstone next year - for his and our benefit. He has spent all the credit he had with the fans and with the squad too by the looks of it. This is whether we go down or stay up (I think we'll finish 11th and maybe stay up).

[Mr Heliums]

1 hour ago, Sh*teAndMuck said:

I still can’t get my head round this manager and a lot of this team won the cup double last year. 

Everything makes more sense once you accept the random fortune that edged us past Dunfermline on pens in the League Cup, that it was a million-to-one shot that Xander would score a last-minute goal at Ibrox in the Scottish Cup to put us through to the lottery of penalties; and that someone was looking down on us for Hamilton to equalise in the last minute against St Mirren, which put us into the top six on goal difference.

Luck is a  part of football that no-one really likes to acknowledge because we want a narrative that makes sense, but if we'd had a fraction less luck in 2021 we could have been out of both cups and finished bottom six.  We'd have ended the year cup-less and probably managerless.

Edited April 10, 2022 by Mr Heliums

[PauloPerth]

St Mirren getting a four goal pumping is a very good result for us after yesterday.  Hopefully it gives our players a bit of belief back as well, knowing regardless of how bad it was, the only real damage is a point gained by Dundee 

That looked like a game where st Mirren could easily get something after recent events for rangers.

it’s closed the goal difference enough that if we win two games more than st mirren we’d overtake them, if they were all 1 goal wins/ defeats.

Really is up in the air, Dundee could get an Adam inspired run of results and overtake us, or we could get the wins and move above st mirren/ Aberdeen if one or both continue their terrible form.

If pushed, I’d probably guess we’ll finish 11th. A 2 win swing in just 5 matches is quite significant, though far from insurmountable.

[tree house tam]

Dundee had chances against United, they actually attacked with a degree of purpose. I can't really remember us doing that, it's been that long. That said United missed several open goals. I think there are a few twists in this season yet and if Saints are to be anywhere but bottom they'll have to play well and score goals. I just can't see it, I think we've peaked too early.

[PSJ.84]

15 hours ago, PauloPerth said:

 

Harsh and unfair to single out a sub, but even Butterfield with a big smile and waving enthusiastically a couple of times to friends in the Saints support as he was warming up completely unfazed at the 5-0 shambles behind him spoke volumes to me.  Really petty probably I know but he looked like he didn’t have a care in the world and was just happy to be there.

 

Was absolutely livid at this. A player I am beginning to despise