AJF Posted May 17, 2021 Share Posted May 17, 2021 2 minutes ago, FrankChickens1 said: Without duplicating my post above, would you agree then that its a little bit devious for the Rangers board to make Club Statements about a video which has seemingly disappeared into the ether. They plainly hope that lots of people will hope they are talking about the other videos. That would be entirely in keeping with Rangers' approach to PR and, in my book, quite a scummy thing to do. What is devious about it? It’s not Rangers that have removed the video, it’s the original publishers. They’ve even went to the extent of deleting their accounts. Like I said, take away from that what you will, but I’d imagine those who originally published it have now panicked and removed it after seeing the traction it got. Why would they remove it? The only obvious reason I can think of is if it has been faked and they don’t want it traced back to them. That could be entirely wrong, I admit, but I don’t see why they’d remove it otherwise. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AJF Posted May 17, 2021 Share Posted May 17, 2021 3 minutes ago, Theroadlesstravelled said: Scotland has a massive problem with bigotry and sectarianism. The legitimacy of a short video doesn’t change that. Yeah, I don’t think anyone is arguing against that really. I’m certainly not. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jinky67 Posted May 17, 2021 Share Posted May 17, 2021 (edited) 10 minutes ago, FrankChickens1 said: More Tory sophistry. If there is 1 edited video (which noone has shown me yet) then that means there are lots of unedited videos where you kind of can hear it (but not conclusively). We are now in the interesting situation where Rangers fans have to argue the sectarianism in the video is really obvious, and so it must be doctored, and all the rangers haters have to argue its subtle, so the video might be authentic. If there is 1 really obvious video (which everyone has seen but me apparently), then its also very calculated of Rangers to jump on that 1 and ignore the rest. Learning from their fellow lovers of the butchers' apron in Westminster. This is the original Around 35 seconds is where its probably at its most clear - thats me not saying it is or isnt just where it sounds like it Curious as to why the boy at 12 seconds is trying the boy in the suit to lower his phone Edited May 17, 2021 by Jinky67 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FrankChickens1 Posted May 17, 2021 Share Posted May 17, 2021 Just now, AJF said: What is devious about it? It’s not Rangers that have removed the video, it’s the original publishers. They’ve even went to the extent of deleting their accounts. Like I said, take away from that what you will, but I’d imagine those who originally published it have now panicked and removed it after seeing the traction it got. Why would they remove it? The only obvious reason I can think of is if it has been faked and they don’t want it traced back to them. That could be entirely wrong, I admit, but I don’t see why they’d remove it otherwise. Sorry I think we are talking at cross purposes. I'm not accusing Rangers of removing the video. I'm saying that if Rangers are making that statement about a video which seemingly no longer exists, then that's a bit excessive, and so the reason they are doing it is, in my opinion, to try and tar all the other, real, videos with the same 'doctored' brush. Again, if there is a very obvious doctored video which is now disappeared, and all the ones I've seen are genuine, then its pretty concerning how much they seem to show sectarian singing, even if it cannot be said to be unequivocally clear. -2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jinky67 Posted May 17, 2021 Share Posted May 17, 2021 3 minutes ago, Forever_blueco said: Christ a guy had his middle finger in the air for a split second he is clearly a sectarian bigot But why? seems a bit of an odd thing to do 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Forever_blueco Posted May 17, 2021 Share Posted May 17, 2021 4 minutes ago, Jinky67 said: But why? seems a bit of an odd thing to do Who knows 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AJF Posted May 17, 2021 Share Posted May 17, 2021 2 minutes ago, FrankChickens1 said: Sorry I think we are talking at cross purposes. I'm not accusing Rangers of removing the video. I'm saying that if Rangers are making that statement about a video which seemingly no longer exists, then that's a bit excessive, and so the reason they are doing it is, in my opinion, to try and tar all the other, real, videos with the same 'doctored' brush. Again, if there is a very obvious doctored video which is now disappeared, and all the ones I've seen are genuine, then its pretty concerning how much they seem to show sectarian singing, even if it cannot be said to be unequivocally clear. I’m not aware if there definitely is one that has been doctored. None of the videos I’ve seen have any obvious signs it has, but similarly, none of the videos I’ve seen convince me FTP add ons were sung. Can you share the ones that you know are genuine? This tweet is one of the few I can find of the original video that was uploaded to TikTok. It does not sound to me whatsoever that FTP is being sung here. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jinky67 Posted May 17, 2021 Share Posted May 17, 2021 2 minutes ago, Forever_blueco said: Who knows So you can't offer any logical suggestion as to why someone would make a f**k you gesture at a point where they were alleged to be singing FTP? 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derry Alli Posted May 17, 2021 Share Posted May 17, 2021 4 hours ago, Lurkst said: But which would he rather be? Probably living in another street, I'd imagine. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drew Brees Posted May 17, 2021 Share Posted May 17, 2021 48 minutes ago, AJF said: So a team made up of players that are predominantly not Scottish and have a large portion of Catholic players, you think on the balance of probabilities were shouting FTP without actually hearing them shouting FTP? I’ll let terry explain it. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FrankChickens1 Posted May 17, 2021 Share Posted May 17, 2021 1 minute ago, AJF said: I’m not aware if there definitely is one that has been doctored. None of the videos I’ve seen have any obvious signs it has, but similarly, none of the videos I’ve seen convince me FTP add ons were sung. Can you share the ones that you know are genuine? This tweet is one of the few I can find of the original video that was uploaded to TikTok. It does not sound to me whatsoever that FTP is being sung here. I haven't said there are any I know are genuine. I'm saying it follows from Rangers board saying 'a doctored video' that the rest must be real. Or is the suggestion that multiple people have all doctored multiple videos which all make it sound like some people in the room might be singing FTP, conveniently at the same time as Firth (who I wrongly called Wes F earlier) is making gestures made at that time, and have done such an excellent job of it that it isn't clear it has been doctored nor, oddly, what is actually being sung. I don't think any have been doctored based on what I've seen - which makes Rangers' statement very unpleasant in my view, although typical of them. I haven't seen any clearly showing FTP being sung, but I've seen multiple videos in which the balance of the evidence, including what sounds like some people, but not all, in the room singing FTP, makes it more likely than not that some of the people in the room, but not all, are singing exactly that. -2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Forever_blueco Posted May 17, 2021 Share Posted May 17, 2021 3 minutes ago, Jinky67 said: So you can't offer any logical suggestion as to why someone would make a f**k you gesture at a point where they were alleged to be singing FTP? I don’t have to logistically suggest anything to you you have went from definite sectarian singing this morning to now a guy has his middle finger in the air for all of a split second . Like a few weeks ago your argument is falling in on itself -2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Forever_blueco Posted May 17, 2021 Share Posted May 17, 2021 2 minutes ago, FrankChickens1 said: I haven't said there are any I know are genuine. I'm saying it follows from Rangers board saying 'a doctored video' that the rest must be real. Or is the suggestion that multiple people have all doctored multiple videos which all make it sound like some people in the room might be singing FTP, conveniently at the same time as Firth (who I wrongly called Wes F earlier) is making gestures made at that time, and have done such an excellent job of it that it isn't clear it has been doctored nor, oddly, what is actually being sung. I don't think any have been doctored based on what I've seen - which makes Rangers' statement very unpleasant in my view, although typical of them. I haven't seen any clearly showing FTP being sung, but I've seen multiple videos in which the balance of the evidence, including what sounds like some people, but not all, in the room singing FTP, makes it more likely than not that some of the people in the room, but not all, are singing exactly that. You haven’t seen any showing clear evidence of FTP clearly being sung but you think there may have been a few people singing . You either heard it being sung or you didn’t. There is no in between -1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bennett Posted May 17, 2021 Share Posted May 17, 2021 23 minutes ago, Jinky67 said: Cause you say so? Ironically the same gesture used during the part of the song where the alleged lyrics were sung. A finger gesture was used! I never knew that, totally outrageous and completely justifies this witch hunt. -1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FrankChickens1 Posted May 17, 2021 Share Posted May 17, 2021 Although I would have been 100% behind Kudela being banned forever, based on existing video/audio, owing to what he obviously screamed into Kamara's ear, its worth remembering the audio wasn't conclusive on that either. The two incidents are obviously not really comparable, but the willingness of Rangers fans to fluctuate between viewing corollary evidence as either definitive or irrelevant based on who is being investigated is very noteworthy. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jinky67 Posted May 17, 2021 Share Posted May 17, 2021 1 minute ago, Forever_blueco said: I don’t have to logistically suggest anything to you you have went from definite sectarian singing this morning to now a guy has his middle finger in the air for all of a split second . Like a few weeks ago your argument is falling in on itself I don't need logistical help thank you but if i need something delivered i'll give you a shout. And never at any point i said it was definitive, i've said what it sounds and appears to be however i cant also discount the possibility of doctoring considering the platform it was shared on 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Forever_blueco Posted May 17, 2021 Share Posted May 17, 2021 There’s been a finger 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FrankChickens1 Posted May 17, 2021 Share Posted May 17, 2021 1 minute ago, Forever_blueco said: You haven’t seen any showing clear evidence of FTP clearly being sung but you think there may have been a few people singing . You either heard it being sung or you didn’t. There is no in between I mean - there definitely is an inbetween. To me the videos very strongly sound like someone or some persons in the room are singing FTP. They absolutely do not sound like the whole room is singing FTP. 'Very strongly to me' isn't 'clear evidence', but I don't hear everyone singing the exact same thing and that thing being the usual bit of Sweet Caroline. I'm bemused by anyone saying that they do hear everyone singing the same thing. If not everyone is singing the same thing, at a time when drunk rangers fans sing FTP, and the room is full of drunk rangers fans (whether childhood or Butcher style), and some of them stick their middle fingers up at the FTP bit, then yeah, thats what I'm basing my view on that I think some people were singing FTP, but not the whole room. -2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SANTAN Posted May 17, 2021 Share Posted May 17, 2021 I went away for an hour and we've moved onto someone doing the middle finger. Won't someone think of the children?! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drew Brees Posted May 17, 2021 Share Posted May 17, 2021 37 minutes ago, AJF said: “Sectarianism is unacceptable and has no place in our club” ”Orange strips, get your orange strips”. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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