Follow Follow Rangers. Season 2023/24

[The_Kincardine]

15 hours ago, AJF said:

That’s the thing though, the OO itself is not an anti catholic hate group (no laughing at the back please).

I had it explained to me in my younger years from someone in it that said while they are obviously pro-Protestant faith, there is no official stance on being anti-Catholic and they believe there should be tolerance of differing religions whilst disagreeing with them. The overriding purpose was to promote a belief in their god and Protestant ascendancy.

You're right to say that the OO in Scotland isn't anti-Catholic but you're wrong to say that it promotes the Protestant Ascendancy.  Why would it?  The Ascendancy in Ireland was, largely, not a general Protestant notion but a specifically Episcopalian (generally Church of Ireland) one which gave members of the then established church hegemony in political and economic affairs.  

The OO in Scotland - where The Ascendancy was never a thing - was always Presbyterian in nature and by the time of its formation in the early 19th C The Ascendancy in Ireland was all but finished anyway.

Scotland's OO celebrates, primarily, the Battle of the Boyne which, as any fule kno, has two significances.  Firstly, it was the first victory for the nascent League of Augsburg.  The League being, initially, an alliance between England, Holland and the Holy Roman Empire - backed by His Holiness Pope Clement - against the machinations of the dastardly French.  Secondly, it was the turning point of the Williamite Revolution as it pretty-much ended the aspirations of the hapless James VII - backed by said French - to regain the crowns of Scotland and England and to, subsequently, reimpose the empty-headed notion of Absolute Monarchy.  The Boyne, thus, secured William and Mary's positions as constitutional monarchs of both Scotland and England, under the suzerainty of both parliaments.  The logical outcome of this led, delightfully, to the Kingdoms of Scotland and England merging to form a new nation - that of Great Britain - in 1707.

So when Orange Lodges go for a wee dauner each July they are celebrating two of the things that right-thinking people of good will in Britain hold dear:  The independence of Parliament free from arbitrary authority and the establishment of Britain as a unitary nation-state.  Yes it's a pity that some of the independent musicians they hire to help them celebrate and some of the crowd who follow them can be unsavoury or, occasionally, criminal and I know this embarrasses the Lodges.  But let's not condemn the whole barrel for the sake of a few pieces of rotten fruit.

[KingRocketman II]

13 minutes ago, The_Kincardine said:

Yes it's a pity that some of the independent musicians they hire to help them celebrate and some of the crowd who follow them can be unsavoury or, occasionally, criminal and I know this embarrasses the Lodges.  But let's not condemn the whole barrel for the sake of a few pieces of rotten fruit.

 

[The_Kincardine]

2 hours ago, Antony said:

How do Celtic FC encourage anti-protestant bigotry?There's a number of Celtic fans who have outed themselves as being as bad as anyone over the years but constantly refusing to separate anti-catholicism from Irish republicanism/anti imperialism is a big problem in Scotland

When you say that supporters of your club take a stand on 'anti imperialism' to what extent do they focus on Scotland as, pound for pound, the most Empire-minded - and easily the most 'slavey' - region of Europe in modern times?  What focus do you give on Ireland's role - as part of the unitary nation of the United Kingdom since 1801 - in helping build Empire through its soldiers, sailors, civil servants, merchants, doctors, priests, missionaries, merchants and traders?

[williemillersmoustache]

Fire it into the sun, sink it to the bottom of the deepest ocean or bury it deep down in the depths of the most cavernous of mines, seal it with explosives, concrete over the entrance and destroy all evidence it was ever there, but get this steaming pile of rotten tinpot shite away from my football. 

[Jinky67]

29 minutes ago, The_Kincardine said:

You're right to say that the OO in Scotland isn't anti-Catholic but you're wrong to say that it promotes the Protestant Ascendancy.  Why would it?  The Ascendancy in Ireland was, largely, not a general Protestant notion but a specifically Episcopalian (generally Church of Ireland) one which gave members of the then established church hegemony in political and economic affairs.  

The OO in Scotland - where The Ascendancy was never a thing - was always Presbyterian in nature and by the time of its formation in the early 19th C The Ascendancy in Ireland was all but finished anyway.

Scotland's OO celebrates, primarily, the Battle of the Boyne which, as any fule kno, has two significances.  Firstly, it was the first victory for the nascent League of Augsburg.  The League being, initially, an alliance between England, Holland and the Holy Roman Empire - backed by His Holiness Pope Clement - against the machinations of the dastardly French.  Secondly, it was the turning point of the Williamite Revolution as it pretty-much ended the aspirations of the hapless James VII - backed by said French - to regain the crowns of Scotland and England and to, subsequently, reimpose the empty-headed notion of Absolute Monarchy.  The Boyne, thus, secured William and Mary's positions as constitutional monarchs of both Scotland and England, under the suzerainty of both parliaments.  The logical outcome of this led, delightfully, to the Kingdoms of Scotland and England merging to form a new nation - that of Great Britain - in 1707.

So when Orange Lodges go for a wee dauner each July they are celebrating two of the things that right-thinking people of good will in Britain hold dear:  The independence of Parliament free from arbitrary authority and the establishment of Britain as a unitary nation-state.  Yes it's a pity that some of the independent musicians they hire to help them celebrate and some of the crowd who follow them can be unsavoury or, occasionally, criminal and I know this embarrasses the Lodges.  But let's not condemn the whole barrel for the sake of a few pieces of rotten fruit.

One of the very first things the OO started to do way back in the 19th century was to campaign pro actively against any legislation allowing Catholic worship.

Please explain how the f**k that isn’t anti-Catholic? 

Anyone defending the existence of this organisation especially in the 21st century needs to take themselves away and launch themselves in the sea.

Segregation, exclusivity based on religion is the very foundation sectarian grows from and thrives in.

The once believed fair minded Rangers fans on this forum have properly let themselves down here….

Edited March 27, 2022 by Jinky67

[kingjoey]

26 minutes ago, The_Kincardine said:

You're right to say that the OO in Scotland isn't anti-Catholic but you're wrong to say that it promotes the Protestant Ascendancy.  Why would it?  The Ascendancy in Ireland was, largely, not a general Protestant notion but a specifically Episcopalian (generally Church of Ireland) one which gave members of the then established church hegemony in political and economic affairs.  

The OO in Scotland - where The Ascendancy was never a thing - was always Presbyterian in nature and by the time of its formation in the early 19th C The Ascendancy in Ireland was all but finished anyway.

Scotland's OO celebrates, primarily, the Battle of the Boyne which, as any fule kno, has two significances.  Firstly, it was the first victory for the nascent League of Augsburg.  The League being, initially, an alliance between England, Holland and the Holy Roman Empire - backed by His Holiness Pope Clement - against the machinations of the dastardly French.  Secondly, it was the turning point of the Williamite Revolution as it pretty-much ended the aspirations of the hapless James VII - backed by said French - to regain the crowns of Scotland and England and to, subsequently, reimpose the empty-headed notion of Absolute Monarchy.  The Boyne, thus, secured William and Mary's positions as constitutional monarchs of both Scotland and England, under the suzerainty of both parliaments.  The logical outcome of this led, delightfully, to the Kingdoms of Scotland and England merging to form a new nation - that of Great Britain - in 1707.

So when Orange Lodges go for a wee dauner each July they are celebrating two of the things that right-thinking people of good will in Britain hold dear:  The independence of Parliament free from arbitrary authority and the establishment of Britain as a unitary nation-state.  Yes it's a pity that some of the independent musicians they hire to help them celebrate and some of the crowd who follow them can be unsavoury or, occasionally, criminal and I know this embarrasses the Lodges.  But let's not condemn the whole barrel for the sake of a few pieces of rotten fruit.

Is there any other country in the world that would be having this kind of post detailing historical events from over 300 years which have zero relevance to football, on a football forum? By the way, unique doesn’t always equal good.

[GNU_Linux]

Cricket thread for this pish.

[Jinky67]

4 minutes ago, kingjoey said:

Is there any other country in the world that would be having this kind of post detailing historical events from over 300 years which have zero relevance to football, on a football forum? By the way, unique doesn’t always equal good.

Is there any other country in the world that would allow such an organisation to exist nevermind allowing them to publicly flaunt their hatred? 

[kingjoey]

4 minutes ago, Jinky67 said:

Is there any other country in the world that would allow such an organisation to exist nevermind allowing them to publicly flaunt their hatred? 

Roamin' in the Gloamin' anyone?

[Albus Bulbasaur]

26 minutes ago, kingjoey said:

Roamin' in the Gloamin' anyone?

In fairness Jinky has condemned that song iirc. 

[kingjoey]

1 minute ago, Albus Bulbasaur said:

In fairness Jinky has condemned that song iirc. 

I was only trying to highlight that one club is as bad as the other, mainly by not doing enough to rid themselves of people in their supports dragging both clubs down.

[Thistle_do_nicely]

1 hour ago, The_Kincardine said:

You're right to say that the OO in Scotland isn't anti-Catholic but you're wrong to say that it promotes the Protestant Ascendancy.  Why would it?  The Ascendancy in Ireland was, largely, not a general Protestant notion but a specifically Episcopalian (generally Church of Ireland) one which gave members of the then established church hegemony in political and economic affairs.  

The OO in Scotland - where The Ascendancy was never a thing - was always Presbyterian in nature and by the time of its formation in the early 19th C The Ascendancy in Ireland was all but finished anyway.

Scotland's OO celebrates, primarily, the Battle of the Boyne which, as any fule kno, has two significances.  Firstly, it was the first victory for the nascent League of Augsburg.  The League being, initially, an alliance between England, Holland and the Holy Roman Empire - backed by His Holiness Pope Clement - against the machinations of the dastardly French.  Secondly, it was the turning point of the Williamite Revolution as it pretty-much ended the aspirations of the hapless James VII - backed by said French - to regain the crowns of Scotland and England and to, subsequently, reimpose the empty-headed notion of Absolute Monarchy.  The Boyne, thus, secured William and Mary's positions as constitutional monarchs of both Scotland and England, under the suzerainty of both parliaments.  The logical outcome of this led, delightfully, to the Kingdoms of Scotland and England merging to form a new nation - that of Great Britain - in 1707.

So when Orange Lodges go for a wee dauner each July they are celebrating two of the things that right-thinking people of good will in Britain hold dear:  The independence of Parliament free from arbitrary authority and the establishment of Britain as a unitary nation-state.  Yes it's a pity that some of the independent musicians they hire to help them celebrate and some of the crowd who follow them can be unsavoury or, occasionally, criminal and I know this embarrasses the Lodges.  But let's not condemn the whole barrel for the sake of a few pieces of rotten fruit.

Genuinely tuned out and started reading this in rentons voice about halfway through

Edit: "lets not condemn the whole barrel for a few pieces of rotten fruit" - this is a pet hate of mine, ive seen phrases like this misused more and more often recently, big example coming to mind iirc joe biden going "oh its just a few bad apples" with regards to police officers engaging in misconduct. Its *precisely the point* that a few bad apples/rotten fruit contaminate everything, and might have a lasting impression on younger fans...

Edited March 27, 2022 by Thistle_do_nicely

[The_Kincardine]

59 minutes ago, Jinky67 said:

One of the very first things the OO started to do way back in the 19th century was to campaign pro actively against any legislation allowing Catholic worship.

My knowledge of Scottish history is ok but far from perfect.  You're welcome to update me on when, in the 19th C, Catholic worship in Scotland was forbidden and when the Grand Orange Lodge of Scotland campaigned against, "any legislation allowing Catholic worship".

[The_Kincardine]

1 hour ago, kingjoey said:

Is there any other country in the world that would be having this kind of post detailing historical events from over 300 years which have zero relevance to football, on a football forum? By the way, unique doesn’t always equal good.

Don't blame me - I didn't initiate this discussion.  This was your diddy pals who seem to have an irrational hatred of floot bons.

Edited March 27, 2022 by The_Kincardine

[Dons_1988]

1 hour ago, The_Kincardine said:

You're right to say that the OO in Scotland isn't anti-Catholic but you're wrong to say that it promotes the Protestant Ascendancy.  Why would it?  The Ascendancy in Ireland was, largely, not a general Protestant notion but a specifically Episcopalian (generally Church of Ireland) one which gave members of the then established church hegemony in political and economic affairs.  

The OO in Scotland - where The Ascendancy was never a thing - was always Presbyterian in nature and by the time of its formation in the early 19th C The Ascendancy in Ireland was all but finished anyway.

Scotland's OO celebrates, primarily, the Battle of the Boyne which, as any fule kno, has two significances.  Firstly, it was the first victory for the nascent League of Augsburg.  The League being, initially, an alliance between England, Holland and the Holy Roman Empire - backed by His Holiness Pope Clement - against the machinations of the dastardly French.  Secondly, it was the turning point of the Williamite Revolution as it pretty-much ended the aspirations of the hapless James VII - backed by said French - to regain the crowns of Scotland and England and to, subsequently, reimpose the empty-headed notion of Absolute Monarchy.  The Boyne, thus, secured William and Mary's positions as constitutional monarchs of both Scotland and England, under the suzerainty of both parliaments.  The logical outcome of this led, delightfully, to the Kingdoms of Scotland and England merging to form a new nation - that of Great Britain - in 1707.

So when Orange Lodges go for a wee dauner each July they are celebrating two of the things that right-thinking people of good will in Britain hold dear:  The independence of Parliament free from arbitrary authority and the establishment of Britain as a unitary nation-state.  Yes it's a pity that some of the independent musicians they hire to help them celebrate and some of the crowd who follow them can be unsavoury or, occasionally, criminal and I know this embarrasses the Lodges.  But let's not condemn the whole barrel for the sake of a few pieces of rotten fruit.

^^^ David Healy’s thought process when he did a flute gesture against Celtic for fulham.

[Jinky67]

1 hour ago, kingjoey said:

Roamin' in the Gloamin' anyone?

I think you will find i was pretty quick to condemn anyone singing that song in the relevant match threads on here.
I also did the same on twitter it’s a fucking horrible song as should be nowhere near a football game.

I’m hardly a shrinking violet when it comes to calling this shit out in both directions

[Drew Brees]

1 hour ago, Thistle_do_nicely said:

Genuinely tuned out and started reading this in rentons voice about halfway through

Edit: "lets not condemn the whole barrel for a few pieces of rotten fruit" - this is a pet hate of mine, ive seen phrases like this misused more and more often recently, big example coming to mind iirc joe biden going "oh its just a few bad apples" with regards to police officers engaging in misconduct. Its *precisely the point* that a few bad apples/rotten fruit contaminate everything, and might have a lasting impression on younger fans...

 

[The_Kincardine]

Back to the football.  Rangers U19s beat Glasgow City 4-2 on penalties to lift the league cup:

Their U16 counterparts are 2-1 up against Aberdeen at Broadwood at HT in their league cup final.

Meanwhile, at Auchenhowie, Rangers Women are leading the Jam Tarts Fruit Pastries 3-0 at HT.

Prile of wins for Rangers Women on the cards.

 

 

Edited March 27, 2022 by The_Kincardine

[DMCs]

Our green and grey friends providing ample entertainment during this international break:

 

[kingjoey]

2 hours ago, The_Kincardine said:

Don't blame me - I didn't initiate this discussion.  This was your diddy pals who seem to have an irrational hatred of floot bons.

Fair enough, although to not put most of blame on AJF could be considered negligence. Strange, because like yourself, he's normally one of the good(ish) guys on here.