Coefficientwatch

[invergowrie arab]

I'd like to see us market our league/install into our clubs/ tell our bairns etc that Scotland are a big deal, that nobody (who has ever done anything in Europe - f**k off Cyprus) are into football as much as us.

We are a huge footballing nation and skiing countries like Austria might have a purple patch but we should be top 10 every time.

[Ginaro]

4 hours ago, DiegoDiego said:

5 hours ago, Ginaro said:

Because it coincides with other countries losing their best scores from the start of their 5-year coefficient, while we're up against countries from 7th to 15th who don't have as many qualifying rounds as us to gain points in, and our points count for 25% more than other countries as we have 4 clubs instead of 5.

Yes, I understand how it works. Just saying it's a strange system where you can be top eight by virtue of having one club reach the last sixteen of the second tier competition every other year.

It's not just one club reaching the last 16, it's been two clubs in the GS / R32 in the last three seasons. Which is what the likes of Austria have done recently - three clubs in group stages and two in the EL R32 - but their points are divided by 5 clubs not 4. Instead of 8.250 we'd have 6.600 points next season with an extra club. 

Though we haven't actually reached 8th yet - we need another good season to end in the same position.

Edited February 26, 2021 by Ginaro

[54_and_counting]

On 26/02/2021 at 15:27, DiegoDiego said:

On 26/02/2021 at 14:33, Ginaro said:

Because it coincides with other countries losing their best scores from the start of their 5-year coefficient, while we're up against countries from 7th to 15th who don't have as many qualifying rounds as us to gain points in, and our points count for 25% more than other countries as we have 4 clubs instead of 5.

Yes, I understand how it works. Just saying it's a strange system where you can be top eight by virtue of having one club reach the last sixteen of the second tier competition every other year.

But that's not what scotland have achieved is it, and we have the luck until next season that there's only 4 teams in Europe so the points are quartered, next season theres 5 teams so for scotland to kinda keep its run going they need at least one team to win a couple of the qualifiers at least, 

If two teams next season have a killie/rangers first round embarrassment, Scotland will be lucky to keep its high position, especially if rangers qualify for the CL as you'd expect them not to go undefeated like they have done this season 

[Ginaro]

35 minutes ago, 54_and_counting said:

But that's not what scotland have achieved is it, and we have the luck until next season that there's only 4 teams in Europe so the points are quartered, next season theres 5 teams so for scotland to kinda keep its run going they need at least one team to win a couple of the qualifiers at least, 

If two teams next season have a killie/rangers first round embarrassment, Scotland will be lucky to keep its high position, especially if rangers qualify for the CL as you'd expect them not to go undefeated like they have done this season 

We are guaranteed two clubs in the Conference League group stage (Rangers/3rd) plus another if they (Celtic) win one tie. However the big difference to this season is that those three will have 6 qualifying rounds combined to play in, compared to the three or four each previously, and the games will be much harder.

4th and 5th in the ECL will only have one round where they will be seeded and expected to pick up coefficient points.

[ahemps]

On 26/02/2021 at 16:14, G51 said:

I mean, if you seriously can't understand why Scotland are so high in the co-efficient table then I dunno what to tell you.

 Rangers have played 43 European games since 2018 (W24 D13 L5).  That's 14 a season. Celtic will be similar. If Manchester United make it to this seasons Europa League final, it'll be their 15th game. So Rangers and Celtic are playing roughly the same number of games as elite teams do when they win the competition.

It's not rocket science. Teams that play more games are going to earn more points.

I think you are both right....somehow. Scotland have managed to catch Ukraine in the coefficients but looking back over the last 3-4yrs they seem to perform much better than us. Kiev or Shaktar have gone further than Celtic or Rangers in the Europa every season. Shaktar have also been in the CL group stages finishing 3rd the last 3yrs and 2nd in their group 4 yrs ago while also getting to the Europa semi finals last year. Shaktar are ranked 16th and Kiev 31st in UEFA club coefficients while Celtic are 46th and Rangers 53rd. On one hand we shouldn't be above Ukraine but thanks to the extra games and less teams we are. To maintain such a position though we will need to perform as well if not better than we have done the last 2 seasons.

[FairWeatherFan]

It's going to be hard to tell what impact going from 4 to 5 teams will be. With the potential for 18 Group Stage games over the next couple of years though it should hopefully play out better than last time Scotland had that many qualifying.

[deegee]

My worry is the teams entering this newer lower-ranked competition will either treat it with utter contempt or as glorified pre season friendlies. If the pathway for our 5th based (on league qualification) team is a couple games against mid ranked Maltese or Kosovan type league teams, there’ll be little interest or appetite. Who knows how this will impact on coefficient as, on a positive side, some of our other teams might continue to progress in the other competitions, especially the EL.

[craigkillie]

I doubt clubs will treat it any differently to the Europa League.

[FairWeatherFan]

13 minutes ago, deegee said:

My worry is the teams entering this newer lower-ranked competition will either treat it with utter contempt or as glorified pre season friendlies. If the pathway for our 5th based (on league qualification) team is a couple games against mid ranked Maltese or Kosovan type league teams, there’ll be little interest or appetite. Who knows how this will impact on coefficient as, on a positive side, some of our other teams might continue to progress in the other competitions, especially the EL.

Is that the excuse for getting knocked out of the Europa League by the likes of Birkirkara, Connah's Quay Nomads, and Progres? They just weren't interested

 

[ahemps]

45 minutes ago, deegee said:

My worry is the teams entering this newer lower-ranked competition will either treat it with utter contempt or as glorified pre season friendlies. If the pathway for our 5th based (on league qualification) team is a couple games against mid ranked Maltese or Kosovan type league teams, there’ll be little interest or appetite. Who knows how this will impact on coefficient as, on a positive side, some of our other teams might continue to progress in the other competitions, especially the EL.

I think the opposite, no way will the likes of Everton give a toss about playing in the conference league but teams from Scotland absolutely will which might see them putting out weakened sides while the low ranked nations take it seriously giving them more chance to take points while these big nations throw some easy pints away.

The OF might see it as a chance to actually win a European tournament if they find themselves in it.

A lot of these bigger clubs already can't be fussed with the Europa. I think the lower ranked nations will see it exactly the same as they already do with the Europa. 

[deegee]

1 hour ago, FairWeatherFan said:

Is that the excuse for getting knocked out of the Europa League by the likes of Birkirkara, Connah's Quay Nomads, and Progres? They just weren't interested

 

I think it’s been for many years a combination of not being interested, whether it’s been unspoken but just assumed, poor and lazy preparation and a sprinkling of arrogance and contempt. 

[Ginaro]

6 hours ago, deegee said:

My worry is the teams entering this newer lower-ranked competition will either treat it with utter contempt or as glorified pre season friendlies. If the pathway for our 5th based (on league qualification) team is a couple games against mid ranked Maltese or Kosovan type league teams, there’ll be little interest or appetite. Who knows how this will impact on coefficient as, on a positive side, some of our other teams might continue to progress in the other competitions, especially the EL.

The two Conference League participants will enter the second qualifying round so half the diddies from the first round will have been knocked out. Don't think it will be treated as glorified friendlies, the games will likely take place in the two preceding midweeks before the start of the season, clubs should be up to speed.

Going by the spreadsheet on cldraw.ru you can see below who Aberdeen/Livingston (4th/5th) are likely to draw in their ECL qualifying rounds. Think all our clubs will be taking it seriously. Aberdeen close to being seeded for QR3.

Edited March 4, 2021 by Ginaro

[AmericanFan]

21 hours ago, deegee said:

My worry is the teams entering this newer lower-ranked competition will either treat it with utter contempt or as glorified pre season friendlies. If the pathway for our 5th based (on league qualification) team is a couple games against mid ranked Maltese or Kosovan type league teams, there’ll be little interest or appetite. Who knows how this will impact on coefficient as, on a positive side, some of our other teams might continue to progress in the other competitions, especially the EL.

Why?

It's a chance to play in Europe, so I would think they'd be pretty pumped regardless of the opponent.  If Livi or St. Mirren can't get pumped up to play for this, that speaks pretty poorly on them.

[AmericanFan]

20 hours ago, ahemps said:

I think the opposite, no way will the likes of Everton give a toss about playing in the conference league but teams from Scotland absolutely will which might see them putting out weakened sides while the low ranked nations take it seriously giving them more chance to take points while these big nations throw some easy pints away.

The OF might see it as a chance to actually win a European tournament if they find themselves in it.

A lot of these bigger clubs already can't be fussed with the Europa. I think the lower ranked nations will see it exactly the same as they already do with the Europa. 

Couldn't agree more.

[AmericanFan]

14 hours ago, Ginaro said:

The two Conference League participants will enter the second qualifying round so half the diddies from the first round will have been knocked out. Don't think it will be treated as glorified friendlies, the games will likely take place in the two preceding midweeks before the start of the season, clubs should be up to speed.

Going by the spreadsheet on cldraw.ru you can see below who Aberdeen/Livingston (4th/5th) are likely to draw in their ECL qualifying rounds. Think all our clubs will be taking it seriously. Aberdeen close to being seeded for QR3.

Obviously this will be changing on a weekly basis, but with some upsets in Round 2 (hopefully not against Scotland teams), there's a decent chance both could be seeded in Round 3 should they advance. That's a good position to be in.

[charger29]

Obviously this will be changing on a weekly basis, but with some upsets in Round 2 (hopefully not against Scotland teams), there's a decent chance both could be seeded in Round 3 should they advance. That's a good position to be in.

Annoyingly the 3rd round draw takes place before the 2nd round has been completed (same with all other rounds in all competitions). They'd have to hope some of the teams above them lose out in the 1st round but given the quality of opposition at that stage that seems unlikely.

[AmericanFan]

4 minutes ago, charger29 said:

1 hour ago, AmericanFan said:

Obviously this will be changing on a weekly basis, but with some upsets in Round 2 (hopefully not against Scotland teams), there's a decent chance both could be seeded in Round 3 should they advance. That's a good position to be in.

Annoyingly the 3rd round draw takes place before the 2nd round has been completed (same with all other rounds in all competitions). They'd have to hope some of the teams above them lose out in the 1st round but given the quality of opposition at that stage that seems unlikely.

Good point

[Ginaro]

Rangers draw puts us 0.275 ahead of Ukraine in the race for an automatic group stage spot for next season's champions. 

Unless the Ukraine teams get at least one wins/two draws between them, then 11th will be secured even if Rangers lose. Both clubs need 2-3 goals to win so are unlikely to get through to the QFs.

Lost ground on the Dutch but another draw for Rangers and we'll start ahead of Russia next season in 8th.

Edited March 11, 2021 by Ginaro

[TheGoon]

Group stage spot’s wrapped up then isn’t it? 

[AmericanFan]

4 hours ago, TheGoon said:

Group stage spot’s wrapped up then isn’t it? 

No. If Rangers lose next week and one of the Ukrainian teams win (or both tie), they'll jump ahead.  Or if Rangers tie and both Ukrainian teams win or one wins and one ties, they'll jump ahead.