Coefficientwatch

[Ross.]

8 minutes ago, 54_and_counting said:

f**k knows what happened there, stupid system , their record was 6,1,1 last season not 6,1,2 as i put and for some reason cannot edit

I actually agree that Deila was extremely unlucky in the draw last year, as that Malmo side were better than Be'er Sheva this year. At the same time, I thought Qarabag were better than Malmo, and Celtic knocked them out the round before.

This Celtic side carry far more of an attacking threat and appear far sounder defensively than Deila's side were. Granted, they were gubbed 7-0 in Barcelona, but you could have seen them losing by that score to a second rate side at some point under the last manager. Strangely though, Deila's best European performances came in the games where Celtic were probably underdogs.

[54_and_counting]

4 hours ago, Ross. said:

I actually agree that Deila was extremely unlucky in the draw last year, as that Malmo side were better than Be'er Sheva this year. At the same time, I thought Qarabag were better than Malmo, and Celtic knocked them out the round before.

This Celtic side carry far more of an attacking threat and appear far sounder defensively than Deila's side were. Granted, they were gubbed 7-0 in Barcelona, but you could have seen them losing by that score to a second rate side at some point under the last manager. Strangely though, Deila's best European performances came in the games where Celtic were probably underdogs.

carry more of an attacking threat aye, thats what happens when you spend big money and wages on it, defensively id say they are just as bad if not worse, last season in the qualifiers they lost 5 goals, 4 of which came against Molde, this season they lost 7 against decidedly weaker opposition

again further example of improvement being down to luck in the qualifiers and not actual improvement overall team wise

[Ross.]

11 hours ago, 54_and_counting said:

carry more of an attacking threat aye, thats what happens when you spend big money and wages on it, defensively id say they are just as bad if not worse, last season in the qualifiers they lost 5 goals, 4 of which came against Molde, this season they lost 7 against decidedly weaker opposition

again further example of improvement being down to luck in the qualifiers and not actual improvement overall team wise

Since the qualifiers they have improved further though, especially at the back. That is shown domestically and in Europe, looking at results since the game away to Barca.

Edited November 8, 2016 by Ross.

[54_and_counting]

6 hours ago, Ross. said:

Since the qualifiers they have improved further though, especially at the back. That is shown domestically and in Europe, looking at results since the game away to Barca.

improved further compared to what though?

[Ross.]

16 minutes ago, 54_and_counting said:

improved further compared to what though?

Compared to the qualifying rounds and their early league games. They were conceding against everyone early on, but have now kept 6 or 7 clean sheets in a row domestically.

[54_and_counting]

53 minutes ago, Ross. said:

Compared to the qualifying rounds and their early league games. They were conceding against everyone early on, but have now kept 6 or 7 clean sheets in a row domestically.

We arent discussing domestically, were discussing if celtic have improved in europe under Rodgers, given their performances and money spent id say no, 

[Ross.]

3 minutes ago, 54_and_counting said:

We arent discussing domestically, were discussing if celtic have improved in europe under Rodgers, given their performances and money spent id say no, 

Not really possible to make a like for like comparison. Knock out ties versus a league structure for a start, and the level of opponent on top.

They performed relatively well at home v Man City and away to Mönchengladbach, both of whom are far better than any of the sides they faced in qualifying. Had they faced either of those sides in qualifying they would have been demolished at that stage.

[Davie Bhoy]

If he's even still at Celtic. Theres a reason he only accepted a one year rolling contract.

It's Celtic who hand out 1yr rolling contracts to managers. Have done with every manager since MoN.

[Davie Bhoy]

And? The current rangers team arent spending close to 30mill on wages a year, spending millions on a manager and tossing 4mill on one player

 

Suggesting Celtic are spending close on £30m a year on wages

[Davie Bhoy]

We arent discussing domestically, were discussing if celtic have improved in europe under Rodgers, given their performances and money spent id say no, 

Jeez, just read several of your posts and you really are bitter. Celtic go through & we were lucky...funnily enough in our defeats you never suggest we were unlucky. I mean we battered the Red Imps away but do I hear you say we were unlucky to lose and not kill the tie in Gibraltar....no. All you have done is focus on the negatives. The only game we really struggled in was the away tie in Israel & given the Heat & humidity of playing in the desert, our players looked dead on their feet. That kinda game poss came too soon for them but that's the beauty of the qualifiers.

However the fact is we did enough to go through. So it's not lucky. As for throwing in about the penalties, they were stonewallers and if we hadn't been taken down in the box, would have likely scored. That is not being lucky...it's the rules of the game. You also question the quality of the sides we faced & how 'lucky' we were but you fail to mention how this poor Beer Sheva side went to Milan & beat Inter in the San Siro. C'mon man, give credit where it's due.

We also drew away in Germany & at home to Man City. Both sides who play in the elite leagues in Europe & who spend so many £m's more than we do...how does that fit into your 'they spend £m's' argument?

If you can't see the improvement in this Celtic side in Europe then you clearly have no clue about football.

You go on about spending £m's...our net spend is only about £4m

[CityDave]

Read the rumours about Messi might be on his way to Man City for 500k a week. How can anyone compete with that? Clubs like Celtic are mere minnows now.

[Davie Bhoy]

Read the rumours about Messi might be on his way to Man City for 500k a week. How can anyone compete with that? Clubs like Celtic are mere minnows now.

Makes no difference. We couldn't compete financially for the past 20 years & we still can't now.

[Ross.]

On 21.11.2016 at 11:26, Davie Bhoy said:

 

Suggesting Celtic are spending close on £30m a year on wages

 

They are spending more than that.

ETA:

http://cdn.celticfc.net/assets/downloads/Celtic_Annual_Report_2016_Web.pdf

Page 9, under operating expenses has "Labour" at £36.9m.

Edited November 22, 2016 by Ross.
Adding a f*cking source.

[54_and_counting]

On 21/11/2016 at 10:43, Davie Bhoy said:

 

Jeez, just read several of your posts and you really are bitter. Celtic go through & we were lucky...funnily enough in our defeats you never suggest we were unlucky. I mean we battered the Red Imps away but do I hear you say we were unlucky to lose and not kill the tie in Gibraltar....no. All you have done is focus on the negatives. The only game we really struggled in was the away tie in Israel & given the Heat & humidity of playing in the desert, our players looked dead on their feet. That kinda game poss came too soon for them but that's the beauty of the qualifiers.

However the fact is we did enough to go through. So it's not lucky. As for throwing in about the penalties, they were stonewallers and if we hadn't been taken down in the box, would have likely scored. That is not being lucky...it's the rules of the game. You also question the quality of the sides we faced & how 'lucky' we were but you fail to mention how this poor Beer Sheva side went to Milan & beat Inter in the San Siro. C'mon man, give credit where it's due.

We also drew away in Germany & at home to Man City. Both sides who play in the elite leagues in Europe & who spend so many £m's more than we do...how does that fit into your 'they spend £m's' argument?

If you can't see the improvement in this Celtic side in Europe then you clearly have no clue about football.

You go on about spending £m's...our net spend is only about £4m

how the f**k can the game away to beer sheeva have came too soon for a team that had played not only 5 qualifiers before it, but 2 league games as well

as for luck etc you are missing the point big time, not unusual mind you, this is the easiest qualifying campaign celtic have had in years, and like it or not they scraped through, Delia for all his failings had harder qualifying campaigns, whos to say he wouldnt have got through a CL group stage had he made it, my point is that celtic have and will always need luck to get through the qualifiers, so talking of improvements over previous seasons is wrong as celtic didnt have the luck of the draw the previous 2

if you think an improvement in this celtic side is a probable european record of P12, W3, D3, L6 then thats up to you, i think thats a brutal record given half the games were qualifiers in which celtic were seeded in all 3 ties

[54_and_counting]

On 21/11/2016 at 10:26, Davie Bhoy said:

 

Suggesting Celtic are spending close on £30m a year on wages

 

 

5 hours ago, Ross. said:

They are spending more than that.

ETA:

http://cdn.celticfc.net/assets/downloads/Celtic_Annual_Report_2016_Web.pdf

Page 9, under operating expenses has "Labour" at £36.9m.

oofftt and that doesnt include the wages of toure, dembele and the rest of the new signings

[Davie Bhoy]

They are spending more than that.

ETA:

http://cdn.celticfc.net/assets/downloads/Celtic_Annual_Report_2016_Web.pdf

Page 9, under operating expenses has "Labour" at £36.9m.

This isn't just for the playing squad though which is where he was aiming that. This includes everyone employed at the club.

[Davie Bhoy]

how the f**k can the game away to beer sheeva have came too soon for a team that had played not only 5 qualifiers before it, but 2 league games as well

Quite simply because it's a new manager who is still trying to find out about 30 new players and who works well in his system etc. Do you really think that 7 competitive games is sufficient time for a new manager to have assessed his entire playing squad? I noticed you failed to address the conditions they had to play in.

as for luck etc you are missing the point big time, not unusual mind you, this is the easiest qualifying campaign celtic have had in years, and like it or not they scraped through, Delia for all his failings had harder qualifying campaigns, whos to say he wouldnt have got through a CL group stage had he made it, my point is that celtic have and will always need luck to get through the qualifiers, so talking of improvements over previous seasons is wrong as celtic didnt have the luck of the draw the previous 2

How can you claim it was an easier qualifying campaign? On paper the teams were maybe not as good but the conditions and other factors were levellers. Travelling to the edge of Asia, Travelling to the desert, playing on a poor artificial surface, playing in a humid climate. You seem to want to overlook these factors while ignoring the point that the opposition were actually not too bad either.

if you think an improvement in this celtic side is a probable european record of P12, W3, D3, L6 then thats up to you, i think thats a brutal record given half the games were qualifiers in which celtic were seeded in all 3 ties

Again...new manager trying to get to grips with an entirely new bunch of players at a new club while trying to navigate through European qualifiers. I know your argument doesn't allow for any of that to be taken into consideration but the only sign of improvement that matters is that while this time last season we failed to make the CL, this season we are there. While we were slipping up in the Europa, this season we are doing it in the CL.

[CityDave]

4 minutes ago, Davie Bhoy said:

 

This isn't just for the playing squad though which is where he was aiming that. This includes everyone employed at the club.

I take it its not a tight ship that's been run here?.

36m in wages not including bonuses just to keep ahead of Aberdeen?? What's Aberdeen's wage budget? The end of season points difference, you can work out the financial cost in wages of each point Celtic finish ahead of Aberdeen?

Then you can see if your team is good value for the wage budget.

[Davie Bhoy]

I take it its not a tight ship that's been run here?.

36m in wages not including bonuses just to keep ahead of Aberdeen?? What's Aberdeen's wage budget? The end of season points difference, you can work out the financial cost in wages of each point Celtic finish ahead of Aberdeen?

Then you can see if your team is good value for the wage budget.

Every club has bonuses. The money spent isn't to keep ahead of Aberdeen, but to keep ahead of the feast of Scottish football. I'm not interested in what cost each point gained comes at. We are the champions, we are in the CL, we're playing great football, we're looking good for a treble....the money is well spent.

[CityDave]

21 minutes ago, Davie Bhoy said:

 

Every club has bonuses. The money spent isn't to keep ahead of Aberdeen, but to keep ahead of the feast of Scottish football. I'm not interested in what cost each point gained comes at. We are the champions, we are in the CL, we're playing great football, we're looking good for a treble....the money is well spent.

Feast of Scottish football? you mean rest, ....like Motherwell and Hamilton? I can see that Partick Thistle might give you problems and I would if I was a Celtic fan seriously worry about Morton if they ever came up.

But anyway is it not like nuking a little 2cm spider from orbit? And what about the complaints over other teams unable to make the title race more competitive? How can any club in Scotland compete with that? 

But anyway you remind me of the Rangers fans who also didn't care about how much cash they went through to achieve success. As long as they got their fill of win and trophies it didn't matter.