welshbairn Posted August 1, 2019 Share Posted August 1, 2019 (edited) 5 hours ago, harry94 said: The thing is, it's not going away. They will just start to say that it wasn't real Brexit and their version was the right one. There's fertile ground for someone like Farage to continue a movement of 'real Brexit' if the solution we come to is anything less than bricking up the Channel Tunnel. Even if Boris gets a WA through with a fudge on the backstop, it will take years to agree a final trade deal. Farage is on a winner whatever happens. I've started ignoring the news, there is zero hope on the horizon. Edited August 1, 2019 by welshbairn 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeeTillEhDeh Posted August 1, 2019 Share Posted August 1, 2019 I don't think it's productive to be 'winging' about it and I think the horse has probably bolted but it's very possible for it to be used as a tool to make a tangible difference in the outcome of any election and I think we're always at risk of that and this should absolutely be pursued at maximum throttle to try and limit this in the future. Our election laws and mechanisms for handing out fines are based on someone going around and spending a bit too much money on a newspaper advertisement with a paper trail and maybe a slightly misleading statement attached, they aren't equipped to deal with social media and anyone in the world be able to say what they want without anyone knowing their identity - add into that tools like the personality profiling and there's definitely oversight needed. We're talking very very small swings of voters making a very large change. Based on the 2017 General Election, a 2-3% swing from Tory to Brexit Party could possibly give Labour a majority government; in Scotland, the independence majority in parliament is gone if 2-3% of SNP voters somehow get persuaded to stay at home; in the US, Trump took Michigan by ~0.25%. It doesn't really matter what election it is, you are usually talking a very small percentage of voters that changes the outcome - most people have made up their mind already. Another issue with this stuff is the lack of transparency makes the game even more sinister. If Labour are allowed to use these tools for example, they'd possibly be in a situation where they are campaigning for the Brexit Party by stealth as that's their route to victory. Back in 2016, there were targeted advertisements towards Haitian females in Florida that alleged that the Clinton Foundation stole Haitian money and were also running their peadophile ring from there - not to win Trump supporters but to make natural Clinton supporters stay at home. There was also quite a bit of promotion for certain third party candidates that clearly didn't have the funding to sustain an operation themselves - the idea being to try and sustain the green vote to take away from Clinton. We don't know the full extent as it disappears without a trace and is very directly targeted that we can't really gauge the scale of what's out there, . I get that there has always been a very prominent element of being dishonest in elections and trying to lie where you can but this is a scale and sophistication never seen before I'd argue.This.The point is that it only needed a few percentage of voters to be shifted - one of the biggest shares I saw was that bloody Turkish invasion poster - I would not be surprised if quite a few were swayed by that one.It's not the main reason that Leave won though - if anything it just made sure of a win in a tight ballot. For me the biggest reason was the 40+ years of lies churned out by the right wing rags and a thoroughly shite campaign by Remain. Remain tried to fight clean whilst Leave used every trick and lie in the book - sounds like another referendum campaign!! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ross. Posted August 2, 2019 Share Posted August 2, 2019 GBPCHF has dropped below 1.20. Keep going please, you beautiful big f**k up that you are. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WhiteRoseKillie Posted August 2, 2019 Share Posted August 2, 2019 1 hour ago, Ross. said: GBPCHF has dropped below 1.20. Keep going please, you beautiful big f**k up that you are. Jesus, I remember my old man complaining, back in the 70's, when we visited Switzerland, that the exchange rate was 5.8 to the pound when it had been over seven just a couple of years before. Looks like Oil was good for the short term, but for the long haul, Nazi Gold is the way forward... 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ross. Posted August 2, 2019 Share Posted August 2, 2019 1 minute ago, WhiteRoseKillie said: Jesus, I remember my old man complaining, back in the 70's, when we visited Switzerland, that the exchange rate was 5.8 to the pound when it had been over seven just a couple of years before. Looks like Oil was good for the short term, but for the long haul, Nazi Gold is the way forward... Was around the 1.75 mark the first time I came here 8/9 years ago, and 1.50 odds when I moved here 7 years ago. I struggle to see anything that can prevent it sliding further. As for that second line, Norway is still one of the few places that is expensive for the Swiss. That black gold has certainly done them no harm! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WhiteRoseKillie Posted August 2, 2019 Share Posted August 2, 2019 3 minutes ago, Ross. said: Was around the 1.75 mark the first time I came here 8/9 years ago, and 1.50 odds when I moved here 7 years ago. I struggle to see anything that can prevent it sliding further. As for that second line, Norway is still one of the few places that is expensive for the Swiss. That black gold has certainly done them no harm! Pity Maggie had elections to win and backers to bribe, really. Hey ho, easy come, easy go. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malky3 Posted August 2, 2019 Share Posted August 2, 2019 19 hours ago, MixuFixit said: The less you know about what your friends really think, the better you'll get on with them. True, but I also think that falling out with a friend over politics is a really bizarre way to behave and "unfriending" those with an alternative political opinion to yours is quite dangerous. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fullerene Posted August 2, 2019 Share Posted August 2, 2019 14 hours ago, DeeTillEhDeh said: Most Leavers I know are just fucking loudmouths who wouldn't admit to getting anything wrong. I hope my gut is right but I have a feeling there are a large number of secret Leave voters who regret voting the way they did. I agree. Surely there must be some people who voted Leave thinking it would a seamless change - like cancelling a gym membership for a gym you haven't been to in months. Of course nobody wants to admit they went into the polling booth and went "Eeny, meeny, miney, mo - oh what do you know - leave." 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dons_1988 Posted August 2, 2019 Share Posted August 2, 2019 I agree. Surely there must be some people who voted Leave thinking it would a seamless change - like cancelling a gym membership for a gym you haven't been to in months. Of course nobody wants to admit they went into the polling booth and went "Eeny, meeny, miney, mo - oh what do you know - leave." How many people though, on both sides, ‘really’ knew what they were voting for?I voted remain because I had no issue with the EU, I liked the freedom of travel and it was abundantly clear there was no actual plan in place and the leave campaign was just peddling ‘it’ll be alright on the night’.It was a shambles of a referendum and the public weren’t really qualified to make the decision. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dorlomin Posted August 2, 2019 Share Posted August 2, 2019 Got pretty warm down here last week. That should have seen a few more milk bottles piling up on door steps and another shift in the Brexit\Remain demographics towards Remain. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loondave1 Posted August 2, 2019 Share Posted August 2, 2019 It's more complicated than that. The Pro Indy Dundee population in Dundee for example are younger but pie eating fat messes so they might croke prematurely before Indy2. Politics is defined by these subtleties. Got pretty warm down here last week. That should have seen a few more milk bottles piling up on door steps and another shift in the Brexit\Remain demographics towards Remain. -1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WhiteRoseKillie Posted August 2, 2019 Share Posted August 2, 2019 1 hour ago, Malky3 said: True, but I also think that falling out with a friend over politics is a really bizarre way to behave and "unfriending" those with an alternative political opinion to yours is quite dangerous. The majority of people I know aren't all that politically engaged. In my actual social circle, those that are are most definitely on the left like me. I can quite happily debate politics with anyone from any point on the spectrum, but I could never actually be friends with a Tory or anyone who sits on the right of the balance. As with the OF in football, anyone who does not actually call out their misanthropic behaviour is at the very least condoning and normalising it. This Government is actually enacting policies by choice which are killing* people. As the vast majoity of those people are not Tory voters, they simply don't fucking care. *Responsible for early deaths, according to the UN report, but I'll call it what it is. Mass murder by demographic. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WhiteRoseKillie Posted August 2, 2019 Share Posted August 2, 2019 27 minutes ago, dorlomin said: Got pretty warm down here last week. That should have seen a few more milk bottles piling up on door steps and another shift in the Brexit\Remain demographics towards Remain. That line was crossed in March, I think - where enough had died, and enough had reached eligibility to vote* - both figures modified by voting percentages in th 2016 ref. *18, of course, unlike the Coronation of King Cúnt, where 15 year olds had a say. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dorlomin Posted August 2, 2019 Share Posted August 2, 2019 https://www.irishtimes.com/opinion/fintan-o-toole-ireland-can-stop-a-no-deal-brexit-here-s-how-1.3972121 I will just leave this here for our amateur "experts" to wibble over. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Detournement Posted August 2, 2019 Share Posted August 2, 2019 I don't think Sinn Fein are going to follow the Sturgeon route and work to keep the UK in the EU. They will be hoping we leave with No Deal, a hard border pops up and then they can campaign for a border poll 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Detournement Posted August 3, 2019 Share Posted August 3, 2019 50 minutes ago, MixuFixit said: This is also the Sturgeon route tbh So why is she at PV events with Alistair Campbell? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Inanimate Carbon Rod Posted August 3, 2019 Share Posted August 3, 2019 So why is she at PV events with Alistair Campbell?Well it pretty much avoids the ‘you wanted this to happen and did nothing to stop it’ argument. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeeTillEhDeh Posted August 3, 2019 Share Posted August 3, 2019 So why is she at PV events with Alistair Campbell?You're taking the piss or are very obtuse? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Connolly Posted August 3, 2019 Share Posted August 3, 2019 2 hours ago, DeeTillEhDeh said: 4 hours ago, Detournement said: So why is she at PV events with Alistair Campbell? You're taking the piss or are very obtuse? I'm sorry, the answer was C - both of the above. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jacksgranda Posted August 3, 2019 Share Posted August 3, 2019 15 hours ago, Detournement said: I don't think Sinn Fein are going to follow the Sturgeon route and work to keep the UK in the EU. They will be hoping we leave with No Deal, a hard border pops up and then they can campaign for a border poll They're already doing that. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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