Brexit slowly becoming a Farce.

[O'Kelly Isley III]

"In terms of its fiscal balance, Scotland's independence would require taxes derived from its offshore (North Sea) activity to be sufficient to offset the extra monies (in per head terms) currently transferred from the rest of the UK (via the Barnett formula system) in order to pay for the current level of public services. Based on current projections, such North Sea related tax revenues would amount to less than the likely Barnett transfer, leading to a net loss in funding at the time of independence. Under such circumstances the question of whether or not Scotland could afford to initiate the building up of an ‘Oil Fund', is largely a redundant one. "   McLaren, J., & Armstrong, J. (2014). Scotland's Economic Performance and the Fiscal Implications of Moving to Independence. National Institute Economic Review, 227, R3-R13. doi:10.1177/002795011422700102   That report was written before the arse fell out the oil price.

Whatever happened to John McLaren, Scotland's former Dour-b*****d-In-Residence ? A man as I recall with Neil Oliver levels of contempt for the idea of independence for his country of birth.

[Genuine Hibs Fan]

58 minutes ago, Terry_Tibbs said:

@antilion I can see you're a fan of Cathy Newman.

 

I can see you're a fan of Professor Dr Jordan B Peterson 

[NotThePars]

As an aside, Peterson is definitely dead.

[Genuine Hibs Fan]

22 minutes ago, NotThePars said:

As an aside, Peterson is definitely dead.

We'll find out in 3 months what his connection to Epstein was

[lichtgilphead]

2 hours ago, Detournement said:

Who had the Scottish nobles borrowed from?

^^^

Doesn't understand that investors in "The Company of Scotland Trading to Africa and the Indies" expected some return from their investment.

The "debt" was owed from the company to the Scottish (and English!) nobles that had invested. As far as I'm aware, they hadn't borrowed to finance this investment.

[SandyCromarty]

On 20/07/2020 at 16:05, Terry_Tibbs said:

There are clear parallels between Brexiters and Yes supporters. Both support leaving a successful economic union without comprehending the consequences.

Right about Brexit and the EU but I note that there has been some strife again between the eastern EU countries and those western richer economies who have been greeting over continually funding the likes of Bulgaria etc, with Covid the cry for financial help has got louder and wee Macron was table thumping and hurling abuse at a late night meeting, the end up was a handout of 1.3 trillion Euros.

We should never have left and with our inevitable Independence and the Scottish peoples wish to remain in the EU we will absolutely rejoin and be welcome with open arms.

[SandyCromarty]

56 minutes ago, lichtgilphead said:

^^^

Doesn't understand that investors in "The Company of Scotland Trading to Africa and the Indies" expected some return from their investment.

The "debt" was owed from the company to the Scottish (and English!) nobles that had invested. As far as I'm aware, they hadn't borrowed to finance this investment.

Pre Union Scottish Landowners such as the Duke of Hamilton began to see their estates as assets and a means of profit other than seats of military power, this saw the large scale investments in harbour and port developments of Bo'ness by Hamilton, Cunninghame at Saltcoats and the Erskines of Mar at Alloa, this financial input accelerated wealth throughout the country and the rise of Glasgow as a merchant city overshadowing the Dundee's and Embra, the period also say the Founding of the B.O.S in 1695, then came the Covid of the day with the famines between 1695 and 1699 which obviously meant an extensive financial downturn and led  to the eventual union.

The attraction of trade with england was driven by the loss of Scottish exports to France when the prohibition was imposed against trade with that country in 1689.

So there was prior to the union a period where Scotland did prosper until it met head on with the 1695 crisis.  

[SandyCromarty]

5 hours ago, Terry_Tibbs said:

"In terms of its fiscal balance, Scotland's independence would require taxes derived from its offshore (North Sea) activity to be sufficient to offset the extra monies (in per head terms) currently transferred from the rest of the UK (via the Barnett formula system) in order to pay for the current level of public services. Based on current projections, such North Sea related tax revenues would amount to less than the likely Barnett transfer, leading to a net loss in funding at the time of independence. Under such circumstances the question of whether or not Scotland could afford to initiate the building up of an ‘Oil Fund', is largely a redundant one. "

 

McLaren, J., & Armstrong, J. (2014). Scotland's Economic Performance and the Fiscal Implications of Moving to Independence. National Institute Economic Review, 227, R3-R13. doi:10.1177/002795011422700102

 

That report was written before the arse fell out the oil price.

As I have said before Ireland gained their Independence when they had absolutely nothing and a zero economy, such was the peoples desire to rid themselves of a Westminster tyrrany they knew that the poor future they faced was preferable to what they had under english rule..

The vast majority of the Scottish people living in that most populous area the central bely are totally oblivious to the billions of Scottish Oil pounds the westminster gov has frittered on home counties projects, yet the main support for the SNP and Independence is in that area.

[Detournement]

1 hour ago, lichtgilphead said:

^^^

Doesn't understand that investors in "The Company of Scotland Trading to Africa and the Indies" expected some return from their investment.

The "debt" was owed from the company to the Scottish (and English!) nobles that had invested. As far as I'm aware, they hadn't borrowed to finance this investment.

So it was an RBS style bail out then. Invest, company goes bust, state gives you your money back.  

Renton saying that it allowed the Scottish nobles to pay off their debts made me wonder who the creditors were. There were private banks on the continent at that time like the Fuggers but it's not something I've heard about in Scotland. 

 

[lichtgilphead]

28 minutes ago, Detournement said:

So it was an RBS style bail out then. Invest, company goes bust, state gives you your money back.  

Not really, as the payments were taken out of "The Equivalent", which was the sum paid to Scotland as compensation for taking on a share of the English National Debt.

Strangely, none of this sum (£398,085 10s. 0d) reached the pockets of the general Scottish public. Around £233,000 was paid out to the Scottish (and English) investors in the company, whilst the other ~£166,000 was paid out in bribes to Members of the Scottish Parliament that voted for its abolition.

So, unless you know something about the RBS bailout that I don't, the two events aren't really very similar.

Edited July 22, 2020 by lichtgilphead
spelling

[Baxter Parp]

It's amazing how some Scots know so little of their history.  

[Baxter Parp]

Brexit cost for worst-hit Aberdeen already adds up to £9,000 for every resident, researchers calculate

https://www.pressandjournal.co.uk/fp/news/politics/scottish-politics/2356808/brexit-cost-for-worst-hit-aberdeen-already-adds-up-to-9000-for-every-resident-researchers-calculate/?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter

But, oooh yeah, independence would be terrible.

[Genuine Hibs Fan]

1 hour ago, Baxter Parp said:

It's amazing how some Scots know so little of their history.  

The popular understanding of Scottish history is still mainly based on the Walter Scott, shortbread tin depiction popular for about 200 years. There's an argument to be made that it all boils down to a story of romantic noble savages slowly being civilised up until Culloden, which some would say suits a certain agenda.

[Joey Jo Jo Junior Shabadoo]

ITV News Headlines: "With the increase in migrants trying to get over the Channel we ask, why isn't France doing more to stop them?".

Can't think why. Can't think why at all.

ETA: This was another "Project Fear" number, wasn't it? 

Edited July 22, 2020 by Joey Jo Jo Junior Shabadoo

[BFTD]

Congrats to Terry upon his return, for setting a new record for the most number of fonts used in a single post a few pages back, and on knowing so much trivia about Helena Bonham Carter.

[NotThePars]

1 hour ago, Genuine Hibs Fan said:

The popular understanding of Scottish history is still mainly based on the Walter Scott, shortbread tin depiction popular for about 200 years. There's an argument to be made that it all boils down to a story of romantic noble savages slowly being civilised up until Culloden, which some would say suits a certain agenda.

I've posted on here before about it but Wallace was a unionist hero in the 19th century as an example of a noble democratic spirit fighting against unrestricted tyranny. It's all malleable. The most important period for fostering Scottish nationalism is the Thatcher years anyway, imo.

[SandyCromarty]

9 hours ago, NotThePars said:

I've posted on here before about it but Wallace was a unionist hero in the 19th century as an example of a noble democratic spirit fighting against unrestricted tyranny. It's all malleable. The most important period for fostering Scottish nationalism is the Thatcher years anyway, imo.

Correct and now the mantle has been taken up by the Chief Clown who is fanning those ever warmer Independence flames, his utter pish that he spouts that Scotland benefits from the union and hints that we should be thankful is the shite that I urge him to continue with as it encourages more and more honest Scots to rally to our flag.

The downside to his anti Scottish rhetoric is that it will create a backlash for the Scots living and working in england as in 'Who do these ungrateful fuckin Sweaty's think they are after all we've done for them'.

Maybe Bojo's mentor Dominator Cummings is urging him on with it, bear in mind that Cummings is a Scottish name so he could be on our side.

[Mr Heliums]

 

19 hours ago, Terry_Tibbs said:

Where have i endorsed the Tory government?

19 hours ago, Antlion said:

Your rush to defend Johnson was a bit of a giveaway.

Your continued support of UK rule in the teeth of Brexit, which you’ve evidently accepted, confirms it.

Could be a Lib Dem tbf.

[welshbairn]

The Cummings directed UK negotiating strategy seems to be fcuk the details, just get it over the line. When people in January will suddenly realise all the annoying little consequences that could have been ironed out within an extended transition phase will kick in, with no benefits to be seen. Here's the latest, after losing EHIC rights and much more expensive travel insurance, it applies to all UK drivers.

Brexit: NI drivers need green card to cross the border

[John Lambies Doos]

Brexit: NI drivers need green card to cross the border

Meanwhile, Arlene Foster.