Brexit slowly becoming a Farce.

[Theroadlesstravelled]

The Greek economy was a total mess during that time. They still weren’t crazy enough to vote to leave the EU though.

What’s Greek for gammon and taking back control?

[welshbairn]

12 minutes ago, MixuFruit said:

Greece saw multiple rounds of cuts to pensions and benefits as conditions for getting bailout money.

Fair play to them, they got the best pension deals and earliest retirement in Europe for decades while filing fake financial stats and sucking the EU teats.

Edited December 28, 2020 by welshbairn

[G51]

3 minutes ago, Baxter Parp said:

Sure I remember but Ireland is one of the richest countries in Europe now.  It's f**k all to do with "imposing austerity" because of a threat to austerity politics. 

Greater Dublin is a (mostly) rich area but the rest of it is the same as anywhere else. Ireland looks like a rich country on paper because it has a load of multinational corporations headquartered there and because it costs a million quid for a three bed semi in Dublin 4.

Greece certainly isn't high on anyone's list as a rich country.

I've no idea why an EU supporter would even try and defend the troika's actions. The good points for the EU are obvious - free movement of people. Everything else is debatable, and fiscal policy certainly isn't a reason for EU membership.

 

[Baxter Parp]

Just now, MixuFruit said:

well nobody is applying for these kind of bailouts just now, so we don't know. But I'd be surprised if the people at the ECB don't look back on what they did as a massive success. Not sure a Greek person working some of the longest hours in Europe on average would agree.

So the reality is that those economies were/are trainwrecks and the EU imposed strict conditions on the loans but there is no long-term intention to impose austerity.

[LongTimeLurker]

34 minutes ago, G51 said:

...absolutely zero chance of that ever happening. the reason Corbyn didn't sell it is because it's total fantasy. the EU spent most of the 2010's imposing austerity on any country that even threatened to upset austerity politics.

What does what happened in Greece have to do with going after trusts in the Cayman Islands, etc? There was no need for the level of austerity that happened in a UK context if everybody was made to actually pay their taxes.

Edited December 28, 2020 by LongTimeLurker

[The_Kincardine]

5 minutes ago, G51 said:

Greater Dublin is a (mostly) rich area but the rest of it is the same as anywhere else. Ireland looks like a rich country on paper because it has a load of multinational corporations headquartered there and because it costs a million quid for a three bed semi in Dublin 4.

A few weeks I pointed out that the average household income in the RoI is lower than the UK and that the average cost of living was higher.

The Natter Massive hated that.  So expect incoming.

[G51]

3 minutes ago, LongTimeLurker said:

What does what happened in Greece have to do with going after trusts in the Cayman Islands, etc? There was no need for the level of austerity that happened in a UK context if everybody was made to actually pay their taxes.

what power does the EU have to go after trusts in the cayman islands? don't you think that if they could or wanted to, they'd have done it by now?

the idea that the EU would raid big corporations in order to fund progressive policies is a fantasy. the EU has never shown any inclination to do this and never will, because it's only interesting in ensuring the continuation of the current economic consensus. and austerity is fundamental to that consensus - hence all the bullshit you read about a nations finances being compared to a households finances.

[LongTimeLurker]

Posted links earlier about David Cameron personally intervening over trusts in the Cayman Islands et al when the EU started clamping down on tax havens.

Edited December 28, 2020 by LongTimeLurker

[G51]

3 minutes ago, The_Kincardine said:

A few weeks I pointed out that the average household income in the RoI is lower than the UK and that the average cost of living was higher.

The Natter Massive hated that.  So expect incoming.

People look at economic indicators and say "Wow, Ireland must be rich, look at how much it costs to buy a house in Dublin!"

But see when these houses are being bought by investment vehicles instead of homeowners, this isn't a good thing for the people that actually live there! It just means there aren't any affordable homes and they're stuck having to rent forever. There will be an entire generation of people in cities like London and Dublin that never ever get to own their home, because they can't fulfill the deposit and income requirements for a mortgage.

 

[Baxter Parp]

7 minutes ago, G51 said:

what power does the EU have to go after trusts in the cayman islands? don't you think that if they could or wanted to, they'd have done it by now?

"Controlled foreign companies" - means if companies shift profits to companies they own in lower-tax countries, the profits will still be taxed in the country of the parent company

https://ec.europa.eu/taxation_customs/business/company-tax/anti-tax-avoidance-package/anti-tax-avoidance-directive_en

[G51]

4 minutes ago, LongTimeLurker said:

Posted links earlier about David Cameron personally intervening over trusts in the Cayman Islands et al when the EU started clamping down on tax havens.

I can't find what you've posted, so apologies for not reading it, but it's just laughable to think that the EU prioritizes people over capital. It never has done and it never will do. The only reason we have free movement of people in the EU is that it allows companies access to cheap labour.

[G51]

1 minute ago, Baxter Parp said:

"Controlled foreign companies" - means if companies shift profits to companies they own in lower-tax countries, the profits will still be taxed in the country of the parent company

https://ec.europa.eu/taxation_customs/business/company-tax/anti-tax-avoidance-package/anti-tax-avoidance-directive_en

European directives are only any use if a) they're transposed into domestic law, and b) they're actually enforced.

This directive was published nearly 5 years ago and took effect 2 years ago. How come nothing has changed?

[Baxter Parp]

Just now, G51 said:

European directives are only any use if a) they're transposed into domestic law, and b) they're actually enforced.

This directive was published nearly 5 years ago and took effect 2 years ago. How come nothing has changed?

Because it depends on enthusiastically each country pursues breaches of the law.  The UK: Not so enthusiastic.

[The_Kincardine]

3 minutes ago, G51 said:

There will be an entire generation of people in cities like London and Dublin that never ever get to own their home, because they can't fulfill the deposit and income requirements for a mortgage.

You're right and a 1 bedroom flat that I bought in 1986 in N1 for £43500 (2x my income)  is now retailing for £500,000 - way beyond what is affordable for most 26 year olds.

That isn't really the point, though.  South Ireland has a lower household income to that of the UK and a higher cost of living.  The P&B massive hate this being pointed out.

[Guest Jedi]

Its the fact that it was published 5 years ago....around the same time as pressure for a Referendum on leaving was ramped up by the Tories. Its not a good look to be up to your neck in offshore accounts, hedge funds and tax avoidance (as senior Tories and their financial backers are), when it coincides with the push for a Referendum in the first place.

Of course publishing laws and having them properly enacted with regards to tax evasion is never easy, if it was, most countries would try it. 

The Gammon Brigade was sold Brexit on lies about immigration, all the while the offshore account element was surprisingly hidden away.

[G51]

2 minutes ago, Baxter Parp said:

Because it depends on enthusiastically each country pursues breaches of the law.  The UK: Not so enthusiastic.

So you're saying that absolutely none of the countries in the EU27 have any interest in repatriating tax income from offshore accounts and this is why this isn't happening?

Or is it more likely that the rules were written in such a way that it took specialist tax experts about a week to get round them, and the entire exercise was little more than grandstanding?

[Baxter Parp]

1 minute ago, G51 said:

So you're saying that absolutely none of the countries in the EU27 have any interest in repatriating tax income from offshore accounts and this is why this isn't happening?

Or is it more likely that the rules were written in such a way that it took specialist tax experts about a week to get round them, and the entire exercise was little more than grandstanding?

I have no idea whether the law is effective elsewhere, I only know that the UK hasn't been interested in pursuing large tax offenders for decades.

[DeeTillEhDeh]

The main blame for Greece's austerity is Greece itself - unsustainable public sector spending.

Ad Lib has covered this before:

"This isn't complicated:

If they hadn't sought to convey the impression that, by the Eurozone's own proposed standards, Greece was a suitable founding participant when it wasn't, it wouldn't have been allowed to join. Creditors would have acted accordingly by not offering credit as cheaply and plentifully to Greece in the first place, no longer believing Greek bonds to be in a meaningful sense underwritten by the other participants. It was a form of deceit by convincing the markets that a Eurozone with Greece in it was a lot more stable than it really was, and countless derivative trade and investment and lending in Greece relied on that.

Greece joined the Eurozone with its eyes wide open. They had a decade to raise their retirement age, cut their public sector, trim their military spending and create an economy with stable employment and productivity.

Instead they bought brand new Volkswagens on credit."

[The_Kincardine]

2 minutes ago, Baxter Parp said:

I have no idea whether the law is effective elsewhere, I only know that the UK hasn't been interested in pursuing large tax offenders for decades.

I know that you're about the most stupid person I know but you're posting on a forum which has almost a quarter of a million posts and more than 14 million views on one single thread which says otherwise...

[G51]

Just now, Baxter Parp said:

I have no idea whether the law is effective elsewhere, I only know that the UK hasn't been interested in pursuing large tax offenders for decades.

Do you think that if EU countries with left-leaning governments like Portugal aren't able to successfully pursue offshore havens through this directive, that's probably because the directive isn't effective?

If the directive isn't effective elsewhere, it wouldn't be effective in the UK either. EU/EC directives are wholly transposed into domestic law - the only changes from country to country tend to be national annexes.

The EU will never actively pursue progressive policies. It has no interest in doing this. Remainers who believe this need to get it out of their heads. There is (just about) a progressive case for EU membership, but it's not based on this.