Brexit slowly becoming a Farce.

[MazzyStar]

1 hour ago, SandyCromarty said:

The Brexit deal would enable UK companies to “do even more business” with the European Union, according to Johnson, and would leave Britain free to strike trade deals around the world while continuing to export seamlessly to the EU market of 450 million consumers.

In reality, Brexit has hobbled the UK economy, which remains the only member of the G7 — the group of advanced economies that also includes Canada, France, Germany, Italy, Japan and the United States — with an economy smaller than it was before the pandemic.

Years of uncertainty over the future trading relationship with the European Union, Britain’s largest trading partner, have damaged business investment, which in the third quarter was 8% below pre-pandemic levels despite a UK-EU trade deal being in place for nearly two years.

And the pound has taken a beating, making imports more expensive and stoking inflation while failing to boost exports, even as other parts of the world have enjoyed a post-pandemic trade boom.

 

And how do you think the economies of Canada, France, Germany, Italy, Japan and the United States continue to grow? 

[coprolite]

2 hours ago, MazzyStar said:

And how do you think the economies of Canada, France, Germany, Italy, Japan and the United States continue to grow? 

Ooh, ooh, i know this. 

They get bigger. 

[MazzyStar]

2 hours ago, coprolite said:

Ooh, ooh, i know this. 

They get bigger. 

Haha

[Benjamin_Nevis]

On 29/12/2022 at 09:36, Salt n Vinegar said:

It is possible to have a bit of fun with the sort of folk who immediately believe what anyone says if it fits their prejudices. 

A mate of mine who works in a central belt Council uses two stories quite often. When he meets new folk, and they ask him where he works, he tells them and follows up with stuff about it not being a great place to work but the big perk is that full time employees don't have to pay Council Tax.  That can generate quite a discussion! 

Can't believe I haven't thought of using that one before 

There are however folk who genuinely believe Council staff getting their own streets gritted as a priority is a thing. The local Council's Facebook page is a total hive of fuckwittery, usually bad weather attracts the greatest level of seethe, closely followed by middle class Facebook maws moaning that their kids should get free school meals - "wHy dO fOlK wHo dOnT wAnT tO wOrK gEt eVeRyThInG hAnDeD tO tHeM??!?!?!!?!!!11111"

[Boo Khaki]

Well there are folk at City of Edinburgh Council who would call the union in if the only perk of their post was gritter priority and a council tax rebate.

Fitted kitchens were the order of the day at one point, along with free holidays, and certain 'services' from professionals if the rumours are true.

It's far from over as well. Most of the fuckers on the take appear to have either taken retirement or moved on, but I believe the police are still investigating high value fraud and corruption at CEC HQ so there may yet be more emerges.

Edited December 31, 2022 by Boo Khaki

[SandyCromarty]

14 hours ago, MazzyStar said:

And how do you think the economies of Canada, France, Germany, Italy, Japan and the United States continue to grow? 

Simply because they can trade freely without restriction with the EU.

The UK since Brexit has not only alienated itself from the worlds biggest trading bloc but have brought difficulties such as the NI Protocol upon itself.

The UK NEEDS the EU, the EU does not need the UK.

Build a fence high enough in your garden to cut yourself off from your neighbour and soon the neighbour forgets you ever existed.

As from November next year you will have to purchase a visa to visit the EU.

[MazzyStar]

2 hours ago, SandyCromarty said:

Simply because they can trade freely without restriction with the EU.

The UK since Brexit has not only alienated itself from the worlds biggest trading bloc but have brought difficulties such as the NI Protocol upon itself.

The UK NEEDS the EU, the EU does not need the EU.

Build a fence high enough in your garden to cut yourself off from your neighbour and soon the neighbour forgets you ever existed.

As from November next year you will have to purchase a visa to visit the EU.

I don’t think EU membership is the reason for Canada, US and Japan tbh. 

[SandyCromarty]

2 hours ago, MazzyStar said:

I don’t think EU membership is the reason for Canada, US and Japan tbh. 

You're missing the point, the countries you mention freely trade with the EU and are obviously not in Europe.

The problem with the UK and the EU is obvious, you cannot be in a club then leave taking your club contribution with you then expect free admission back into that club to suit you, many countries within the EU are hostile to any trade with the UK and consider the UK trade deal pariahs.

The EU is the biggest trading bloc in the world without comparison and the UK is on the outside of that bloc.

Brexit was the biggest mistake that the westminster government made and they now go round with trade begging bowls and are being shafted, plus they are now re-opening the door to immigration now that they realise the disastrous effect to the economy when europeans went home after Brexit.

The UK economy is now smaller than before the pandemic and that is a direct result of Brexit as we cannot grow due to poor trade deals and lack of manpower.

If you think that we are better off after Brexit and you believe all the guff Gove Johnson and co fed you and continue to feed you then good luck to you, pay happily for a visa to visit EU countries when you used to walk freely into them.

 

 

[welshbairn]

10 hours ago, MazzyStar said:

I don’t think EU membership is the reason for Canada, US and Japan tbh. 

The US economy is bigger than the EU on its own, and Canada and Japan have spent decades establishing favourable trading relations around the world. We're scrambling to try to get back something close to the deals we had as EU members with far less leverage, and have insisted on a whole new set of barriers to trade with our nearest trading partners just so we can refuse to sign up to common standards. There is zero gain to Brexit.

[MazzyStar]

9 hours ago, welshbairn said:

The US economy is bigger than the EU on its own, and Canada and Japan have spent decades establishing favourable trading relations around the world. We're scrambling to try to get back something close to the deals we had as EU members with far less leverage, and have insisted on a whole new set of barriers to trade with our nearest trading partners just so we can refuse to sign up to common standards. There is zero gain to Brexit.

Yes, that’s what I meant from the first post. The reason most of these countries economies continue to grow is the way the “trade” with the world, through the EU, USMCA etc. Maybe there is zero gain to brexit, and certainly none with a Tory government, but that doesn’t make the EU project any less problematic.

[Dawson Park Boy]

Brexit wasn’t just about trade deals and such like.

Primarily, it was about sovereignty and being able to steer our own course in the world.

I would liken it to how the nationalists feel about an independent Scotland. There is no economic case for tearing away from your next door neighbour and biggest market.

Its sovereignty, nothing more, nothing less.

My country is the UK, the nationalists see their country as Scotland.

Its really quite simple.

[git-intae-thum]

47 minutes ago, Dawson Park Boy said:

Brexit wasn’t just about trade deals and such like.

Primarily, it was about sovereignty and being able to steer our own course in the world.

I would liken it to how the nationalists feel about an independent Scotland. There is no economic case for tearing away from your next door neighbour and biggest market.

Its sovereignty, nothing more, nothing less.

My country is the UK, the nationalists see their country as Scotland.

Its really quite simple.

The irony of labelling others as nationalists.

 

[Antlion]

1 hour ago, Dawson Park Boy said:

Brexit wasn’t just about trade deals and such like.

Primarily, it was about sovereignty and being able to steer our own course in the world.

I would liken it to how the nationalists feel about an independent Scotland. There is no economic case for tearing away from your next door neighbour and biggest market.

Its sovereignty, nothing more, nothing less.

My country is the UK, the nationalists see their country as Scotland.

Its really quite simple.

And in this analogy, you and yours are Jean-Claude Juncker and Ursula von der Leyen on a one-army, ever-closer-union steroid binge…

[Michael W]

The era of free trade deals, or at least the proliferation of them, is almost certainly over for the foreseeable future. We can get hung up on sovereignty if we want, but the attributes of that sovereignty were the primary driver of the Brexit campaign (e.g. a trade deal with the US since the EU is incompetent and can't agree one). 

Contrary to hopes that Joe Biden's election would result in the US returning to 'normal', it is a direct result of Joe Biden that we are entering an era where trade deals are not going to thrive. His Inflation Reduction Act has pissed off the EU to the point that a trade war between the EU and US is almost certainty inevitable, given the "buy American" and subsidy aspects. A party like the US taking protectionist measures like that which undermines the entire system trade deals are built upon is a huge problem and the EU will probably adopt similar measures itself. This puts the UK in a bad position. Biden's Act harms us and if the EU retaliates it will almost certainly harm us as well. It is bad to have two trading behemoths at each others' throat, but made somewhat worse when both are your largest trading partners. Damage in the crossfire is inevitable. 

The harsh reality is this backdrop makes one of the biggest arguments for Brexit redundant. Hopes of a US trade deal are dead for the foreseeable future: never mind any Democrats and their concerns about the Good Friday Agreement - the trade deal is not possible against the backdrop of Biden's Inflation Reduction Act. Similarly, we are in a poor position with the EU. I don't think the EU is going to renege on its trade deals, but improvement isn't going to come that's for sure, and there will be indirect damage with the US and EU probably implementing measures against each other. 

There are also not going to be many countries seeking deals against this backdrop either. If the US acts unilaterally, a whole load of countries suffer and take their own measures. These measures are almost certainly contrary to WTO principles and are not in the spirit of agreeing future trade deals. The UK might be a rare example seeking them out, but the ones that really matter (US, India etc.) are simply not happening. 

There are clearly a number of problems with the EU. However, leaving it has solved none of them and circumstances are such that it is going to cause the UK to get caught in the crossfire of a trade war.  

[welshbairn]

1 hour ago, Dawson Park Boy said:

Brexit wasn’t just about trade deals and such like.

Primarily, it was about sovereignty and being able to steer our own course in the world.

What happened to pragmatic, pro business Conservatism versus ideology driven, pie in the sky Socialism? The right have totally lost the plot, steering your own course is far easier with the leverage of 500 million consumers behind you than 67 million, we've thrown that advantage away for a couple of lopsided trade deals with NZ and Oz. We're not going to get the days of pirating, the East India Company and Opium Wars back.

Edited January 1, 2023 by welshbairn

[KirkieRR]

1 hour ago, Dawson Park Boy said:

There is no economic case for tearing away from your next door neighbour and biggest market.

By being in the UK we've been torn away from one of our biggest marjkets against our will.

And you should really complete your summary along the lines of: 'There is no economic case for independence and so we should just take it right up the fundament as True Loyal Brits  if we are presented with a Brexit or a deranged right-wing Tory government we didn't want.'

[Dan Steele]

2 hours ago, Dawson Park Boy said:

There is no economic case for tearing away from your next door neighbour and biggest market.

Missed that on the Brexit bus.

[sophia]

2 hours ago, Dawson Park Boy said:

Its really quite simple.

It may well be in your mind map, however outwith that curious environment, it is anything but.

[lichtgilphead]

2 hours ago, Dawson Park Boy said:

Its sovereignty, nothing more, nothing less.

My country is the UK, the nationalists see their country as Scotland.

The UK does not have sovereignty. Part of it (Northern Ireland) is still part of the EU.

[Salt n Vinegar]

Just now, lichtgilphead said:

The UK does not have sovereignty. Part of it (Northern Ireland) is still part of the EU.

Oh no.  Now you've done it!

If you must insist on playing the Norn card and using facts, you'll get nowhere on this forum.