welshbairn Posted February 19 Share Posted February 19 (edited) 1 hour ago, Trogdor said: I suspect there will be ways he can finance it. It'll be costly to finance it but I'd imagine that's what he'll do on appeal. Pay 10s of millions rather than 100s of millions. 1 hour ago, Trogdor said: It's all a bit odd with no obvious victims, Deutsche Bank haven't complained. I was hoping they would also have looked at him undervaluing property for tax reasons, but apparently that's covered by the statue of limitations. Wouldn't surprise me if an appeal massively reduces the fine and other punishments, or even lets him off entirely. In the meantime I could see Turnberry temporarily coming into the ownership of the New York court. Edited February 19 by welshbairn 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TxRover Posted February 20 Share Posted February 20 (edited) 8 hours ago, welshbairn said: It's all a bit odd with no obvious victims, Deutsche Bank haven't complained. I was hoping they would also have looked at him undervaluing property for tax reasons, but apparently that's covered by the statue of limitations. Wouldn't surprise me if an appeal massively reduces the fine and other punishments, or even lets him off entirely. In the meantime I could see Turnberry temporarily coming into the ownership of the New York court. The victims are several and varied, of instance: Shareholders in Deutsche Bank lost money. Other people borrowing money paid higher rates or couldn't get loans. Insurance companies shareholders were defrauded of money. New York State lost money. I would honestly not expect a reduction of any more than about 50% at most, simply because by playing hardball, committing other crimes during testimony and denying everything, the Trump Organization made it clear that they didn't care about anything but money. Also, they are pretty limited in where they can appeal, since this is a New York State Law issue. The consumer fraud aspect is where the appeal will be made, using the no victims argument, but I suspect it will fail because they can show the Trump Organization was unjustly enriched at the expense of stock holders in a number of companies.. Edited February 20 by TxRover 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TxRover Posted February 20 Share Posted February 20 Some speculation on possible payments of a bond for Trump in the E. Jean Carroll Case from Saudi interests…can’t see how that could go wrong… 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bully Wee Villa Posted February 20 Share Posted February 20 On 17/02/2024 at 23:15, TxRover said: The fun bit of the GoFundMe is people don't comprehend just how large these numbers are. If he continued to receive about $126,000 a day, it would take about 2,817.5 days to raise the fine, without considering interest alone on that fine is about $87,535 per day. It's roughly 14 years to pay it off completely, And the good news is, even if they do raise the money, it's still money which is being taken away from utter arseholes. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TxRover Posted February 20 Share Posted February 20 1 minute ago, Bully Wee Villa said: And the good news is, even if they do raise the money, it's still money which is being taken away from utter arseholes. Not a bad theory…but it’s going to save an even bigger arsehole from paying it himself so he can keep running for God Emperor or whatever they plan to call him. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TxRover Posted February 20 Share Posted February 20 19 hours ago, welshbairn said: It's all a bit odd with no obvious victims, Deutsche Bank haven't complained. I was hoping they would also have looked at him undervaluing property for tax reasons, but apparently that's covered by the statute of limitations. Wouldn't surprise me if an appeal massively reduces the fine and other punishments, or even lets him off entirely. In the meantime I could see Turnberry temporarily coming into the ownership of the New York court. Here’s a pretty useful look at the legal theory and ruling: https://reason.com/2024/02/19/how-a-judge-arrived-at-a-staggering-disgorgement-order-against-trump/ 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Salt n Vinegar Posted February 20 Share Posted February 20 3 hours ago, TxRover said: Some speculation on possible payments of a bond for Trump in the E. Jean Carroll Case from Saudi interests…can’t see how that could go wrong… He better behave. If Trump feks about and forfeits the bond.... If he fails to pay up to the Saudis, he could sell to the highest bidder the TV rights for him being buried up to his neck in sand and BBQ sauce poured over his head. If it was on pay per view, I might sign up. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wee-Bey Posted February 21 Share Posted February 21 Can't decide. Ruth Davidson or young Peter Lawall ? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BFTD Posted February 21 Share Posted February 21 7 minutes ago, D Angelo Barksdale said: Can't decide. Ruth Davidson or young Peter Lawall ? That's been shopped to have Davidson's face, surely. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carpetmonster Posted February 21 Share Posted February 21 3 hours ago, D Angelo Barksdale said: Can't decide. Ruth Davidson or young Peter Lawall ? Huffty off The Word. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TxRover Posted February 22 Share Posted February 22 Trump criteria to proceed with appeal: 1) Pay appeal bond (judgment+interest+20% reserve for interest during appeal) of $544 million ($355+$98+$91). 2) Find someone capable and willing to put up about $55 million and pay $544 million is Trump defaults. The $55 million would be lost forever. 3) Pay the $453 million in fines and interest while appealing and respect a refund if successful. Payment is due within 30 days of the Clerk of Court entering the final judgement, which isn’t happened yet…and Trump has actually asked for a 30 day delay in filing it from Engoron. Interest is over $87,000 a day. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BFTD Posted February 22 Share Posted February 22 26 minutes ago, TxRover said: Trump criteria to proceed with appeal: 1) Pay appeal bond (judgment+interest+20% reserve for interest during appeal) of $544 million ($355+$98+$91). 2) Find someone capable and willing to put up about $55 million and pay $544 million is Trump defaults. The $55 million would be lost forever. 3) Pay the $453 million in fines and interest while appealing and respect a refund if successful. Payment is due within 30 days of the Clerk of Court entering the final judgement, which isn’t happened yet…and Trump has actually asked for a 30 day delay in filing it from Engoron. Interest is over $87,000 a day. I forget - does he get to clear this debt if he becomes president again? What happens if he just ignores it? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TxRover Posted February 22 Share Posted February 22 (edited) 1 hour ago, BFTD said: I forget - does he get to clear this debt if he becomes president again? What happens if he just ignores it? Nope, New York State charges, so no Federal aspect. Trump now pushing for negotiations, in accordance with other similar cases…but this occurred BEFORE a final ruling. Expected to appeal on the ground of no victim, but NY Law specifically doesn’t require victims, just manipulation. James already positioning to seek the seizure of assets. Expect clarity by the Ides of March. Edit: On the ignore it, they seize property/accounts/etc…even if he’s President. Edited February 22 by TxRover 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BFTD Posted February 22 Share Posted February 22 2 hours ago, TxRover said: Nope, New York State charges, so no Federal aspect. Trump now pushing for negotiations, in accordance with other similar cases…but this occurred BEFORE a final ruling. Expected to appeal on the ground of no victim, but NY Law specifically doesn’t require victims, just manipulation. James already positioning to seek the seizure of assets. Expect clarity by the Ides of March. Edit: On the ignore it, they seize property/accounts/etc…even if he’s President. I wonder if he'll manage to raise a small army of eejits to protect his property like it's a statue of a long dead bigot. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TxRover Posted February 22 Share Posted February 22 15 minutes ago, BFTD said: I wonder if he'll manage to raise a small army of eejits to protect his property like it's a statue of a long dead bigot. So the NY AG gets a title and sells it, not her problem. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aDONisSheep Posted February 22 Share Posted February 22 23 hours ago, D Angelo Barksdale said: Can't decide. Ruth Davidson or young Peter Lawall ? That’s Ricky Gervais in a syrup! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TxRover Posted February 23 Share Posted February 23 Reviewing Trump’s business debts, based upon a non-specific list that uses ranges (the two listed being $5,000,001 to $25,000,000 and more than $50,000,000), Trump has nearly a minimum of $400 million in mortgages and loans (and probably much more). Interestingly, if he doesn’t post the appeal bond or pay the fine, that would be a default event that would trigger a number of his lenders getting the right to immediately call their loans OR seize the collateral. Another hitch is it isn’t entirely clear if business entries in New York could even loan Trump and his business money due to the provisions of the ruling making it illegal for,Trump to do business in NY for 3 years. Looking at the list, he has very few, if any, major properties that he own outright without a mortgage or pledged as collateral. There are also major payments coming due, and it’s an open question if he has cash to any those PLUS the fines/penalties. The clown show rolls on. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TxRover Posted February 24 Share Posted February 24 Judgement was filed yesterday, 23 February. Payment due is $454 million, plus $111,000 or so a day. Deadline is 25 March, and no New York Company can loan him money or provide bond funds. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BFTD Posted February 24 Share Posted February 24 12 minutes ago, TxRover said: Judgement was filed yesterday, 23 February. Payment due is $454 million, plus $111,000 or so a day. Deadline is 25 March, and no New York Company can loan him money or provide bond funds. Time to get on the blower to those nice people who offer to consolidate all your debts into a single easy-to-manage monthly payment. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
btb Posted February 25 Share Posted February 25 Trump (60%) beats Haley (40%) in her home state (!) but she seems to have backers willing to keep her challenge going presumably in the hope Trump's situation totally blows up in his face. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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