welshbairn Posted August 8, 2017 Share Posted August 8, 2017 Quote For some foreign-policy experts, even within his own administration, Obama’s about-face on enforcing the red line was a dispiriting moment in which he displayed irresolution and naïveté, and did lasting damage to America’s standing in the world. “Once the commander in chief draws that red line,” Leon Panetta, who served as CIA director and then as secretary of defense in Obama’s first term, told me recently, “then I think the credibility of the commander in chief and this nation is at stake if he doesn’t enforce it.” Right after Obama’s reversal, Hillary Clinton said privately, “If you say you’re going to strike, you have to strike. There’s no choice.” https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2016/04/the-obama-doctrine/471525/ 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alan Stubbs Posted August 8, 2017 Share Posted August 8, 2017 1 hour ago, NotThePars said: It's weird how it's the left's fault that the liberal centre are so fucking shit and love pandering to an implacable right. I wouldn't disagree that Clinton was a terrible candidate but on policy, she pandered way more to the left. I can completely understand the left's anger at the DNC stitching up their man but the "they're all the same duuude" apathy that let Trump in doesn't actually stand up to any scrutiny in this case. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carpetmonster Posted August 8, 2017 Share Posted August 8, 2017 This. Hawkish centrist vs utter farce in human form. The UK comparison would be Tony Blair running against Joey Barton. EDIT - Specifically, the French press conference Joey Barton 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baxter Parp Posted August 8, 2017 Share Posted August 8, 2017 1 hour ago, welshbairn said: https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2016/04/the-obama-doctrine/471525/ What the f**k's this supposed to be? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NotThePars Posted August 8, 2017 Share Posted August 8, 2017 I wouldn't disagree that Clinton was a terrible candidate but on policy, she pandered way more to the left. I can completely understand the left's anger at the DNC stitching up their man but the "they're all the same duuude" apathy that let Trump in doesn't actually stand up to any scrutiny in this case. Right except the vast majority of discourse from the left on Clinton didn't reach the conclusion that "they're all the same duuuude" it correctly made the call that Clinton was an uninspiring candidate who represented more of the same that people didn't want. Combine that with the incredibly patronising tone the campaign struck at the youth "Pokemon Go to the polls" and dabbing on Ellen and it's bizarre that people want to deflect blame from the candidate and her team. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baxter Parp Posted August 8, 2017 Share Posted August 8, 2017 3 minutes ago, NotThePars said: Right except the vast majority of discourse from the left on Clinton didn't reach the conclusion that "they're all the same duuuude" it correctly made the call that Clinton was an uninspiring candidate who represented more of the same that people didn't want. Combine that with the incredibly patronising tone the campaign struck at the youth "Pokemon Go to the polls" and dabbing on Ellen and it's bizarre that people want to deflect blame from the candidate and her team. Apart from Clinton actually getting more votes than Trump, that is. I don't think she was any less inspiring than Obama or Bush Jr, for instance. It seems odd that you want to portray her that way. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NotThePars Posted August 8, 2017 Share Posted August 8, 2017 And she still lost to a cartoon fascist most famous for a reality tv show and clotheslining Vince McMahon. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baxter Parp Posted August 8, 2017 Share Posted August 8, 2017 Just now, NotThePars said: And she still lost to a cartoon fascist most famous for a reality tv show and clotheslining Vince McMahon. A cartoon fascist isn't necessarily unattractive to the voters. Especially if he's secretly getting a helping hand from a cartoon Russian villain. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
welshbairn Posted August 8, 2017 Share Posted August 8, 2017 16 minutes ago, Baxter Parp said: I don't think she was any less inspiring than Obama.. Eh? Even she wouldn't claim that. Obama was the most inspiring speaker since Kennedy, whatever you think about his presidency. Hilary could have been John Major in drag. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baxter Parp Posted August 8, 2017 Share Posted August 8, 2017 9 minutes ago, welshbairn said: Eh? Even she wouldn't claim that. Obama was the most inspiring speaker since Kennedy, whatever you think about his presidency. Hilary could have been John Major in drag. What was the evidence that people weren't inspired to vote for her then? How are you quantifying that? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
welshbairn Posted August 8, 2017 Share Posted August 8, 2017 Just now, Baxter Parp said: What was the evidence that people weren't inspired to vote for her then? How are you quantifying that? It's a subjective opinion shared by just about everyone on the planet, apart from you obviously. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alan Stubbs Posted August 8, 2017 Share Posted August 8, 2017 20 minutes ago, NotThePars said: Right except the vast majority of discourse from the left on Clinton didn't reach the conclusion that "they're all the same duuuude" it correctly made the call that Clinton was an uninspiring candidate who represented more of the same that people didn't want. Combine that with the incredibly patronising tone the campaign struck at the youth "Pokemon Go to the polls" and dabbing on Ellen and it's bizarre that people want to deflect blame from the candidate and her team. Sound but I'm quite clearly not talking about the "vast majority" of anything. Clinton being shite but a much preferable option to Trump would've been an extremely popular viewpoint on the left and centre. If the people I'm talking about accounted for the vast majority of the left, Trump would've got 90% of the popular vote. The left leaning folk who backed Trump or abstained because they were throwing a huffy or believed Clinton was a bankster paedo lizard represented a minority viewpoint on the left but they probably could've put Clinton in. 14 minutes ago, Baxter Parp said: Apart from Clinton actually getting more votes than Trump, that is. I don't think she was any less inspiring than Obama or Bush Jr, for instance. It seems odd that you want to portray her that way. I can't agree. Obama was a much better candidate. Clinton ran an awful campaign. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baxter Parp Posted August 8, 2017 Share Posted August 8, 2017 Just now, welshbairn said: It's a subjective opinion shared by just about everyone on the planet, apart from you obviously. Well f**k me, an objective opinion? Held by just about everyone? Well, obviously, I can't argue against that. Fucking hell. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
welshbairn Posted August 8, 2017 Share Posted August 8, 2017 Aye, best not. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baxter Parp Posted August 8, 2017 Share Posted August 8, 2017 2 minutes ago, Alan Stubbs said: I can't agree. Obama was a much better candidate. Clinton ran an awful campaign. Obama 2012 65,915,795 Clinton 2016 65,853,516 Please explain in what way Obama was a much better candidate. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baxter Parp Posted August 8, 2017 Share Posted August 8, 2017 (edited) 12 minutes ago, welshbairn said: Aye, best not. Myths and legends are so much easier to cling on to than hard facts, right? Edited August 8, 2017 by Baxter Parp 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pandarilla Posted August 8, 2017 Share Posted August 8, 2017 Obama 2012 65,915,795Clinton 2016 65,853,516 Please explain in what way Obama was a much better candidate. Christ when you're in a hole you need to stop digging. Obama was the very definition of an inspiring candidate. Fucking legendary stuff. Clinton tried to win by being safe, by being not trump. It failed spectacularly. She run a terrible candidate and due to her track record she was generally not a strong candidate in the first place. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alan Stubbs Posted August 8, 2017 Share Posted August 8, 2017 Getting less votes whilst facing an illiterate manchild. Great work. And if you were comparing them honestly, you would compare like for like and use Obama's first election results. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
banana Posted August 8, 2017 Author Share Posted August 8, 2017 8 minutes ago, Baxter Parp said: Obama 2012 65,915,795 Clinton 2016 65,853,516 Please explain in what way Obama was a much better candidate. f**k me, you may be the thickest poster in this thread, which is some going given a few of the other candidates. Even NTP, sniveling little ideologue bigot that he is, makes more sense. No offense meant, of course! BTW, "impeached by March/May" (you know who you are) 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrewDon Posted August 8, 2017 Share Posted August 8, 2017 Look what you've done, Baxter Parp. I hope you're happy now. Sake, man. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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