The Official Former President Trump thread

[Ira Gaines]

I think Edgar has provided an actual non trolling counter argument to a lot of the Trump stuff. I'm not against argument. I'm against tedious as f**k trolls being fed.

[welshbairn]

2 minutes ago, Randy Giles said:

I think Edgar has provided an actual non trolling counter argument to a lot of the Trump stuff. I'm not against argument. I'm against tedious as f**k trolls being fed.

zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz.

[Ira Gaines]

Very good.

[EdgarusQPFC]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-40927089

US President Donald Trump has spoken out against racist violence after the killing of a protester in Charlottesville, Virginia, on Saturday.

"Racism is evil and those who cause violence in its name are criminals and thugs," he told reporters.

The Ku Klux Klan, neo-Nazis and white supremacists were "repugnant" to everything Americans held dear.

 

 

Good that he's actually said it but it's far too late 

[EdgarusQPFC]

21 minutes ago, welshbairn said:

zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz.

 

[Crùbag]

[welshbairn]

12 minutes ago, EdgarusQPFC said:

 

It was Randy who sent me to sleep, randiliciously.

Edited August 14, 2017 by welshbairn

[Miguel Sanchez]

> Carrying Nazi flags and giving Nazi salutes
> Not Nazis
> (((Economic Anxiety)))

> Pick one

[EdgarusQPFC]

4 minutes ago, welshbairn said:

It was Randy who sent me to sleep, randiliciously.

Then I retract my finger

[Ira Gaines]

Heh.

[EdgarusQPFC]

There is a little more information coming out about the "Unite the Right" protest, it seems that they were given a permit allowing them to have this protest, stating that despite the subject of the protest, it was protected under first amendment rights, but the Mayor of Charlottesville fought setting up this protest at every point and when the permit was given he initially stated that he would not permit police to be there for security reasons but the American Civil Liberties Union (ACLU) informed the Mayor that police had to be there as the protest was submitted and permitted under the law and every legal step was taken correctly so regardless of the subject matter it had to be treated like any other protest and have police security there. But now the organisers are saying that when the initial aggression between both sides began that the police were no where to be seen and they are accusing the mayor of ordering the police not to get involved, thereby breaking the law. 

As far as i am concerned, this protest simply shouldn't have happened because not only would it have achieved nothing, it would and has ultimately made those involved look worse, because they would be shown for the vile animals they are(seen a shocking video earlier of someone in the crowd screaming "That guy sounds like a n****r!") Just vile, horrible b*****ds the lot of them. 

But if what the organisers are saying is true and the mayor did order the police not to get involved then the senseless murder of that woman and the subsequent deaths of those 2 state troopers may have been avoided.

Edited August 14, 2017 by EdgarusQPFC

[TheProgressiveLiberal]

6 hours ago, Fullerene said:

If I recall correctly, Lincoln asked him to take command of Northern forces before he decided to join the Southern cause.
Once he had gone to the south, they confiscated his house and turned his garden into Arlington cemetery.

Some of the state flags in the South are still modeled on the confederacy and the people see the Civil War as more than a fight about slavery.
They would also point out that several famous Americans from an early time - such as Thomas Jefferson - were slave owners but don't seem to get criticized for it.
I am not saying I agree with them - just pointing out where they are coming from.

I went to South Carolina a few years back.
At the time of the civil war, the slave population in the state was 400,000 and the non-slave population was only 300,000.
I can see how freeing all the slaves might have changed things a bit.

Yeah, the Civil War was about slavery to the planters who were in charge of the South at that point. However, very few of the soldiers who fought owned slaves or would have viewed this as a fight about slavery. And the vast majority of white people did not own slaves but had the experience of military occupation after the Civil War. This created a stronger "Southern" identity to replace the factional ethnic and class identities which had existed since colonization. It was logical that symbols of the Confederacy would become the identifying markers.

As for the politics of slavery leading up to the Civil War. In the South there were people who argued that it was a positive good and that slavery was the preferable state for the African. There were also those, like Lee, who would have recognized that slavery was a terrible institution on which to base a society (for the whites and blacks both they'd say), but also didn't believe there was a good alternative for what to do with the massive slave population. They believed the end result of emancipation would be a race war in the worst case (Haiti) and black demagogue politicians in control of society for the best case (Zimbabwe/South Africa). In this way he and those Southerners who thought like him would have been very close to the position of Lincoln and other northern moderates as opposed to the Yankee Puritan from Vermont who wanted immediate emancipation with full political rights no matter what the outcome of that would have been for society. At various points in his political career Lincoln opposed allowing freed blacks to move to the North and personally advocated their removal from the South back to Africa. It would have been interesting to see how he would have behaved in the aftermath of the Civil War. When he was killed the Democrat Andrew Johnson, who had been the only Southern Senator to keep his seat when the states seceded, became President. The radical Republicans were in control of Congress. The politics obviously became a disaster. 

Edited August 14, 2017 by TheProgressiveLiberal

[TheProgressiveLiberal]

4 hours ago, Crùbag said:

 

They throw Nazi salutes, wave Nazi flags and kill political opponents. But aye, they're just a bit conservative.

Not sure why you quoted this at me?

[welshbairn]

1 minute ago, EdgarusQPFC said:

There is a little more information coming out about the "Unite the Right" protest, it seems that they were given a permit allowing them to have this protest, stating that despite the subject of the protest, it was protected under first amendment rights, but the Mayor of Charlottesville fought setting up this protest at every point and when the permit was given he initially stated that he would not permit police to be there for security reasons but the American Civil Liberties Union (ACLU) informed the Mayor that police had to be there as the protest was submitted and permitted under the law and every legal step was taken correctly so regardless of the subject matter it had to be treated like any other protest and have police security there. But now the organisers are saying that when the initial aggression between both sides began that the police were no where to be seen and they are accusing the mayor of ordering the police not to get involved, thereby breaking the law. 

As far as i am concerned, this protest simply shouldn't have happened because not only would it have achieved nothing, it would have ultimately made those involved look worse, because they would be shown for the vile animals they are(seen a shocking video earlier of someone in the crowd screaming "That guy sounds like a n****r!") Just vile, horrible b*****ds the lot of them. 

But if what the organisers are saying is true and the mayor did order the police not to get involved then the senseless murder of that woman and the subsequent deaths of those 2 state troopers may have been avoided.

The troopers died in a helicopter crash while being directly involved. Not sure how more police and National Guards could have stopped the Hitler groupie piling into a crowd of counter demonstrators, the only reason far more people weren't killed was a couple of badly parked cars. Not surprised to see the alt right blaming the police and the authorities for their own actions though.

[TheProgressiveLiberal]

29 minutes ago, EdgarusQPFC said:

There is a little more information coming out about the "Unite the Right" protest, it seems that they were given a permit allowing them to have this protest, stating that despite the subject of the protest, it was protected under first amendment rights, but the Mayor of Charlottesville fought setting up this protest at every point and when the permit was given he initially stated that he would not permit police to be there for security reasons but the American Civil Liberties Union (ACLU) informed the Mayor that police had to be there as the protest was submitted and permitted under the law and every legal step was taken correctly so regardless of the subject matter it had to be treated like any other protest and have police security there. But now the organisers are saying that when the initial aggression between both sides began that the police were no where to be seen and they are accusing the mayor of ordering the police not to get involved, thereby breaking the law. 

As far as i am concerned, this protest simply shouldn't have happened because not only would it have achieved nothing, it would and has ultimately made those involved look worse, because they would be shown for the vile animals they are(seen a shocking video earlier of someone in the crowd screaming "That guy sounds like a n****r!") Just vile, horrible b*****ds the lot of them. 

But if what the organisers are saying is true and the mayor did order the police not to get involved then the senseless murder of that woman and the subsequent deaths of those 2 state troopers may have been avoided.

Yes. And they deliberately set up the path which protesters had to take into the park so they had to run a gauntlet of Antifa who were hitting them with sticks, shooting mace, and throwing urine. Go look at the videos. It's clear the path was set up like that on purpose. There were metal guardrail on each side, but they were set up about 7-10 feet apart and the Antifa folks were lining each side. According to reports one of the protesters may be permanently blinded by acid from having to walk this gauntlet. If you want to know why things go out of control and three people died, start here. But the left gets to turn what should have been a minor event into a big story and bash the President over the head with it, so I suppose increasing the potential for violence and death is a small price to pay the way they view things.

Edited August 14, 2017 by TheProgressiveLiberal

[TheProgressiveLiberal]

9 minutes ago, welshbairn said:

The troopers died in a helicopter crash while being directly involved. Not sure how more police and National Guards could have stopped the Hitler groupie piling into a crowd of counter demonstrators, the only reason far more people weren't killed was a couple of badly parked cars. Not surprised to see the alt right blaming the police and the authorities for their own actions though.

No. Once the Nazis were into the park the police declared an unlawful gathering despite the court ruling and ordered an immediate dispersal without providing a pathway out. It was clear that the local authorities specifically wanted to create a situation where antifa could attack the Nazis. 

 

[welshbairn]

Bless them, must have been terrified poor dears.

Edited August 14, 2017 by welshbairn

[TheProgressiveLiberal]

Here's the deal:

Go watch a YouTube a rally from these groups where the police keep them apart. They all look like a bunch of freaks yelling the rudest garbage. It repels people rather than attracts them. When you allow them to be attacked it's much more likely to attract people who are right wing but not Nazis or fascists to their cause, especially if they start to suspect the fix is in based on the actions of the Democrat local government and the media. I suppose a lot of left wingers don't care if normal right wingers move towards fascism. Maybe they want that so they have a moral excuse to crush them. But for people who want a functioning free society you can't have the government allowing the fringe 1%ers on each side to be engaging in street battles.

[TheProgressiveLiberal]

1 minute ago, welshbairn said:

Bless them, must have been terrified poor dears.

The first photo was from the rally the night before. The peaceful rally because there were very limited Antifa there. 

The second photo is of the 3%ers and Oath Keepers, who as I have mentioned a couple times now, were not there affiliated with any group other than their own. They were there to protect property from destruction by both sides. They did a great job because you haven't seen any photos of busted storefronts or burning cars.

[EdgarusQPFC]

14 minutes ago, welshbairn said:

The troopers died in a helicopter crash while being directly involved. Not sure how more police and National Guards could have stopped the Hitler groupie piling into a crowd of counter demonstrators, the only reason far more people weren't killed was a couple of badly parked cars. Not surprised to see the alt right blaming the police and the authorities for their own actions though.

http://edition.cnn.com/2017/08/13/politics/charlottesville-mayor-michael-signer-cnntv/index.html

A little more on this, in a interview with CNNs the Mayor involved in all of this is directly placing blame on this happening on Trump.

What im saying, is if whats being said is true and the police did not get involved at first and things escalated like they did maybe the lunatic wouldnt have driven his car into that crowd. Now i could be totally wrong here and the idiot went there that day with the sole intention of doing so, but if the police were in a position to do much more and they were ordered not to, then that is sickening.

http://www.latimes.com/nation/la-na-charlottesville-rally-20170813-story.html

"Anti-racism activists are questioning why Charlottesville police, who had weeks to prepare for the permitted rally, seemed caught off guard or, in other cases, seemed to ignore violence the city had vowed to prevent. Video clips shared on social media show police standing by in some cases as brawls broke out the morning before the rally was officially set to begin Saturday.

"It's a joke,” said Larry Engel, a local business owner, who faulted police for not separating white supremacists and anti-racist groups that repeatedly clashed before the car attack. "There was no buffer zone” between opposing groups that gathered on downtown streets and in a city park that has become an ideological battleground because of the presence of a Confederate statue."

On Sunday afternoon, angry protesters chased down one of the rally’s main organizers as he attempted to address a throng of reporters outside Charlottesville City Hall.

Members of the crowd shouted “murderer” and “shame” at Jason Kessler, a blogger based in Charlottesville, as a police sniper watched from a nearby rooftop. One man spat on Kessler and another punched him before he darted away with the help of a police escort.

In a statement, Kessler deflected blame and said the violence was "primarily the result of the Charlottesville government officials and the law enforcement officers which failed to maintain law and order by protecting the 1st Amendment rights of the participants of the 'Unite the Right' rally.”

Kessler, who organized the demonstration in response to the city’s efforts to take down a statue of Confederate Gen. Robert E. Lee in a park, also accused police of not doing enough to keep the two sides apart.