Old Firm Colts in L2

[Brother Blades]

As regards the clubs in L2 sitting on the fence, until further clarification, absolutely reeks of “let’s see what extra cash we can get after the OF realise our supporters think it’s a terrible idea”, for me, there are the following issues.
1. The bigot brothers already wield too much power in our game & this will only enhance that power. -f**k off!
2. I can see no evidence, as none has been provided, that this will benefit L2 clubs, fans, the national team, even the colt players! f**k off!
3. If there was any sense at all in the idea (there’s not), why Rangers & Celtic? Why not the top two development sides at present? So again f**k off.
4. Just f**k off.

[Cowden Cowboy]

5 minutes ago, Burnsythebinman said:

is that a view on the current proposal? could you let us know what they said. sorry if I missed it

Now replying to a reasonable query - the club responded to the party who sent us the proposal when approached and gave its views.  It has not published anything but can ask tomorrow if club wants to put something out given other clubs are now doing so.  Not aware that we have had any direct supporter feedback on the issue to the club but I think our supporters may actually trust our judgement on this.    The club did of course previously publish its view on the prior approach re colt teams last year

[Brother Blades]

Now replying to a reasonable query - the club responded to the party who sent us the proposal when approached and gave its views.  It has not published anything but can ask tomorrow if club wants to put something out given other clubs are now doing so.  Not aware that we have had any direct supporter feedback on the issue to the club but I think our supporters may actually trust our judgement on this.    The club did of course previously publish its view on the prior approach re colt teams last year

If you are not sure about any supporter feedback, what inclines you to think your fan base may actually support this?

Are the board actively seeking fan views & input?

 

Edit to say that I should have stated “trust judgement” rather than “support” - my mistake, although your wording implies my original wording.

[The Spider]

1 hour ago, Burnsythebinman said:

Rangers and Celtic have made a proposal to the Scottish FA board to host Scotland international matches and cup finals.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/42824301

 

So they want to dominate the top league

they want their named colt teams playing in the lower leagues

they are going to be 2 of 8  teams with so called elite academies

they want all cup finals to go to their stadiums - at what rent?

they want all scotland matches at their stadiums - at what rent?

 

Who still thinks this is all "for the good of scottish football"?

its them trying to dominate monopolise scottish football

 

to be fair Burnsy, I think you'll find that the bigot brothers already dominate Scottish football, so fixed that for you

[SimonLichtie]

Cowdenbeath will be a no, Cowden Cowboy is just enjoying stirring the pot. Quite odd behaviour for a club director, but each to their own....

There will be a small minority of people who are blinded by hatred of Old Firm/ SFA that anything they put on the table, that is a fair point and I agree with it.

However - very few of the posts on this thread demonstrate that. There is a lot of anger towards both of these parties, but that is because of this pathetic proposal. It's not our the proposal is so easily ripped apart due to it being utterly void of facts. I personally find the whole thing very insulting. There have been a whole host of Rangers/ Celtic fans and others who are open to the Colt idea that have said this is utter bollocks, more posts from these type of people than people blinded by Old Firm/ SFA hatred. There has also be some superb arguments against this, and a lot of facts to back up those arguments.

There has been absolutely nothing, either within this proposal or by anyone in agreement with it, to back it up.

 

 

[Cowden Cowboy]

6 minutes ago, Brother Blades said:

If you are not sure about any supporter feedback, what inclines you to think your fan base may actually support this?

Are the board actively seeking fan views & input?

 

Edit to say that I should have stated “trust judgement” rather than “support” - my mistake, although your wording implies my original wording.

Well firstly CFC is a fan run club.  The club hasn’t actively sought fan feedback but as above the fans running the club  have dialogue with fans continuously 

[Cowden Cowboy]

5 minutes ago, SimonLichtie said:

Cowdenbeath will be a no, Cowden Cowboy is just enjoying stirring the pot. Quite odd behaviour for a club director, but each to their own....

There will be a small minority of people who are blinded by hatred of Old Firm/ SFA that anything they put on the table, that is a fair point and I agree with it.

However - very few of the posts on this thread demonstrate that. There is a lot of anger towards both of these parties, but that is because of this pathetic proposal. It's not our the proposal is so easily ripped apart due to it being utterly void of facts. I personally find the whole thing very insulting. There have been a whole host of Rangers/ Celtic fans and others who are open to the Colt idea that have said this is utter bollocks, more posts from these type of people than people blinded by Old Firm/ SFA hatred. There has also be some superb arguments against this, and a lot of facts to back up those arguments.

There has been absolutely nothing, either within this proposal or by anyone in agreement with it, to back it up.

 

 

Simon I post on here as a fan - always have done

[peternapper]

27 minutes ago, Galabankie said:

The SFA have a responsibility to  all teams/members, likewise the SPFL have a responsibility to all 42 teams – the harsh reality is that the impact of the introduction of Colts teams will see the demise of certain clubs if the bribe is accepted, the bigger picture and end game becomes much closer.

It starts with the two clubs introduced in the pilot who will be redistributing monies received from the SFA through the performance awards and elite academy grants. After the pilot the remainder of the premiership clubs will be introduced into the Leagues which will be undertaking a reconstruction at the same time - distribution monies, number of teams in each tier, introduction of ‘B’ teams, regionalisation, automatic relegation from L2, the potential introduction of a differently formatted European League replacing the Champions League/Europa Cup along the lines of what is happening with National Team.

The Saturday leagues will no longer be the bread and butter for the top Premiership teams – the midweek European Leagues will bring home the bacon and then there will be no limit to where the ‘B’ team will play note the term ‘B’ team (this is different from Colts)  –  this might seem  far- fetched to some, to others not.

When the SPL and SPFL merged clubs were warned as to what would happen if they didn’t vote it through, the same fear and bullying tactics will be applied again, as recent as last season two L2 board rooms reported that they had been informed by the Chief Executive that the Colts proposal would be imposed on the clubs if they didn’t vote for it.

Next Steps - Neil Doncaster will be inviting the chairmen of the dissenting Clubs for a 1 to 1 dinner!

FOOTNOTE - Anyone that believes Doncaster & Regan are not involved and supporting this need to book themselves back in to the funny-farm. Last season Elgin City were told that if the L2 clubs didn't accept the proposals the changes would be imposed upon them, I believe the same point was put to at least one other L2 club Chairman.

Agree the present attempt to devalue League 2 is just the start, if they get away with it eventually the leagues right through to Championship level would be fair game for flooding of teams wanting more than one team in the system which would obviously impact on present probably part time teams who would be pushed out of league status. To allow a small number of clubs who in the past have always said they would prefer to move to more lucrative leagues elsewhere if only they could find one that wanted them. Anyway back to the present this needs thrown out now to avoid losing clubs that mean a lot to supporters of them.

[Bazil85]

Wonder how much more money the supporters will be willing to give Berwick if they vote directly against their will in the Old Firm colt teams proposal? 

Edited January 26, 2018 by Bazil85

[Inanimate Carbon Rod]

Simon I post on here as a massive jobby.

FTFY

[mrman2011]

I just want to see  the back of Regan and Doncaster . What Sevco want Sevco get with this pair of corrupt rogues.

Both have done excellent jobs and work is still taking shape

[mrman2011]

Troll confirmed

Or someone who isn’t bigoted

[Blue Brazil Forever]

54 minutes ago, SimonLichtie said:

Cowdenbeath will be a no, Cowden Cowboy is just enjoying stirring the pot. Quite odd behaviour for a club director, but each to their own....

There will be a small minority of people who are blinded by hatred of Old Firm/ SFA that anything they put on the table, that is a fair point and I agree with it.

However - very few of the posts on this thread demonstrate that. There is a lot of anger towards both of these parties, but that is because of this pathetic proposal. It's not our the proposal is so easily ripped apart due to it being utterly void of facts. I personally find the whole thing very insulting. There have been a whole host of Rangers/ Celtic fans and others who are open to the Colt idea that have said this is utter bollocks, more posts from these type of people than people blinded by Old Firm/ SFA hatred. There has also be some superb arguments against this, and a lot of facts to back up those arguments.

There has been absolutely nothing, either within this proposal or by anyone in agreement with it, to back it up.

 

 

 

51 minutes ago, Cowden Cowboy said:

Well firstly CFC is a fan run club.  The club hasn’t actively sought fan feedback but as above the fans running the club  have dialogue with fans continuously 

Please see my previous posts on this thread. As a senior Fan I can say again that  Cowden are VLGG.

[Cowden Cowboy]

FTFY

Thanks Intimate

[The Minertaur]

Cowden made their views on the colt team most clear months and months ago in the matchday programme.   All the Cowden fans were happy enough with this and being offered 15k won't have changed anybodies opinion.  

Quote

Thank you for your recent e-mail and accompanying letter on this subject.  The Board of Cowdenbeath FC have considered the matter and I can reply on the club’s behalf as follows:

Firstly, I can advise that it would not be Cowdenbeath FC’s intention to enter a Colt team into the League pyramid. 

Secondly, we can provide feedback from our perspective on the outline proposal.  There is a need to strike a balance where possible between what is appropriate for Cowdenbeath FC and what is for the good of the game in Scotland.  If we look at the disadvantages/advantages as detailed in the paper sent to us we don’t disagree that there is possibly potential merit in younger players being exposed to playing against stronger, more experienced players on a regular basis albeit there is no barrier to any club playing players aged 17-21 in their first team in the first place.  If we look at the advantages listed, the first 4 items are all positives for the few larger clubs who are likely to be willing and able to field a Colt side on the basis envisaged – which of course is rather in line with the overall Project Brave ethos. 

The final two advantages listed which might have more relevance to clubs such as Cowdenbeath FC are less than compelling – further ventilation in the League pyramid is not really being achieved by allowing existing League clubs to field a second team in the Pyramid structure.  Rather true ventilation will be better achieved by resolving the anomaly whereby the juniors stand outwith the Pyramid – clubs such as our neighbours Kelty Hearts might indeed set an example that does lead to true ventilation.  Then it is suggested that larger colt teams may attract a reasonable support – there is no evidence to suggest this from last year’s Irn-Bru Cup and other than an Old Firm colt derby we don’t perceive this as being very likely especially when matches are taking place at the same time as the Club’s 1st XI. 

The disadvantages listed are all moot.  The nascent pyramid/Lowland League arrangements are making progress and could be derailed by a diversion away from the basic aim of opening up the National leagues to more clubs via a pathway system.  Colt teams would dilute the competition and obstruct clubs moving up and down the pyramid.  Again in League One or Two if Colt teams were to win the title it would mean comparatively little to the parent club but would deprive a community of the thrill of its club being champions.  Then if Colt teams occupied say 3 out of 6 of the top positions in League One or Two that implies that a club finishing in seventh place could possibly end up winning promotion in a play-off.  10 team Leagues are not at all suitable for Colt teams – we believe in Spain and Germany that leagues where colt teams can gravitate to have at least 18 clubs. 

It is also fairly simple to glean that in respect of the viewpoint of the paying customer/the Scottish football fan that supporters of the larger clubs which may choose to run such Colts sides may well be broadly in favour as their own sides will never play against a colt team in all likelihood whilst the vast majority of fans of clubs in League One or Two would react adversely to what they would perceive as an imposition – they do not view their club as being in the business of providing a development platform for other clubs.

Thus we would not support Colt teams being admitted to the Pyramid – it presumably remains possible for Colt teams to play in the East of Scotland League as they have done in the past but they should not advance beyond that level.  The old ‘C’ Division of the late 1940s/early 1950s of course mixed 2nd XI’s and 1st Xi’s and was not a great success.   The replacement of the Development League by a Reserve League might help matters albeit may not be a panacea.  More player loans rather than less may be part of the solution – it might help develop a player more if he is removed from the club conveyor belt of just progressing through the ranks with the same team-mates but rather goes out on loan and out of a ‘comfort zone’  to learn of the challenges and realities that say part-time professionals face in a less cossetted environment. 

Anyway, hopefully the foregoing provides some food for thought and no doubt there will be a range of viewpoints in the feedback you receive. 

 

 

[San Starko Rover]

I’d warn extreme caution to any league 2 clubs accepting this bribe. How long do you think it will last? Once Colt teams have their foot in the door they’ll want access to league 1 and eventually the championship for a better standard of development. We end up with Hearts, Hibs Aberdeen and possibly others joining the party and how long before they say there are too many teams and cut league 2 adrift from the SPFL? Anne Budge is already claiming this.

Shoehorning teams in at tier 4 goes against every aspect of sporting integrity which Celtic fans were extremely vocal about in 2012. I see zero benefits for teams at lower league level in this proposal. This is for the benefit of the big clubs only.

[Bazil85]

1 hour ago, mrman2011 said:

 

Both have done excellent jobs and work is still taking shape

 

Yep troll confirmed... Or Regan/ Doncaster 

[Ira Gaines]

It was confirmed as soon as they started posting on the subject.

[Inanimate Carbon Rod]

Thanks Intimate

No thanks id rather be alone x

[San Starko Rover]

Yep troll confirmed... Or Regan/ Doncaster 

Oh come on be fair the National team is at an all time high having just qualified for Russia. We have potential managers queuing round Hampden. The SPFL teams are dominating the English, French, Spanish and Luxembourg teams in European competitions and our league is awash with cash.