Old Firm Colts in L2

[sjc]

20 minutes ago, 1320Lichtie said:

 

I don’t think that’s what it is at all tbh.

Having second teams will give them many advantages but I don’t think this is in the thinking here.

The more I think about it the more it scunners me. I don’t know what I’d actually do but I wouldn’t put another penny into Scottish football. Thinking back to that league win last season is making me pretty sad, I can’t imagine winning it by default by coming 2nd or 3rd. Sad day when your club could potentially be used by the big two as sparring partners in the competitions that mean so much to you as supporters.

 

I think they want to have a "way back in" incase the grass isn't greener wherever they end up. I suspect the "elite" Clubs will do likewise should they set off globetrotting in search of an even bigger TV deal.

[mrman2011]

Football manager Scotland Researcher “Ter” is highly in favour of the plans

“There is a lot of benefits to the teams in League Two as well.

- 2 year pilot scheme
- B-Teams play all matches away from home
- 250 tickets per match guaranteed from away supporters (number will be much higher than that in reality)
- Teams have their own identity, manager, coaches and players and they can only move to parent club in transfer windows

It isn't a new concept to Scotland anyway. Stranraer and Annan have reserve teams playing in the South of Scotland League (Level 6) and Stirling University have their reserves in East of Scotland League (Level 6) one step below the Lowland League where their senior team play. If they aren't voted in to League Two then it will likely be the Lowland League with it changing to have a West/East split and other interested teams able to join. They've just never progressed far enough to ask the question. Hibs had their reserve team in one of the lower divisions a few seasons ago and were humping teams 10-0 most weeks and would probably have progressed enough to ask the question but they scrapped it to cut costs after they got relegated.

I don't think the expanding to 12 teams to fit in Rangers/Celtic B teams is the answer either. It needs to come as part of an overall restructure and allow all teams to have B-Teams at the appropriate levels of the pyramid. Hopefully more junior teams will join the pyramid as well like Kelty and Dalkeith.

Having young players playing competitive football will really benefit them, their clubs and the national team and I think it is worth exploring even if it doesn't work out after the 2 years. Nothing to lose really for the teams in League Two and some real increased revenue. If Queen's Park get relegated to League Two and get Rangers/Celtic on board to promote games against them then they could get a big crowd to Hampden for example”

[oneteaminglasgow]

Football manager Scotland Researcher “Ter” is highly in favour of the plans

 

 

Oh well as long as some guy is happy, then that’s fine.

[Jan Vojáček]

18 minutes ago, Burnsythebinman said:

Must say, that was some post. couldnt put it any better.  We cant let this destroy our league. As wee and insignificant as they think we are, it is our league

Cheers mate. I could just write all day about that season! Guess it's irrelevant though, because a researcher for Football Manager thinks it's a good idea.

 

[1320Lichtie]

Think it’s best mrman is just ignored from here on out. He’s already said he doesn’t care about any lower league clubs so his opinion is invalid.

[Burnsythebinman]

Just now, Sonsteam of 08 said:

Cheers mate. I could just write all day about that season! Guess it's irrelevant though, because a researcher for Football Manager thinks it's a good idea.

 

Aye, I take back my other comment now that I know a gaming geek is in favor 

[Ivo den Bieman]

Hello

 

I am writing to you on the recently mooted idea to include SPFL Colt teams in the SPFL League Two as of next season.

 

Whilst I would hope our campaign concludes successfully in promotion this season, I am writing to express my strongest possible opposition to this plan.

 

You may have seen that Elgin City FC have released the consultation document on the proposal, on their website, so I write having read the proposal carefully.

 

The proposal offers absolutely nothing other than wishful thinking and what would be called, in any other line of business, a bribe, in order to encourage acceptance. The idea that Rangers and Celtic colts (both sides nowhere near the top of their development league) would offer anything to our level of football surely does not hold water.

 

Still less credible is the notion that this plan would have anything whatever to do with grounding future internationals at our level of football. The solution to the long term development of the national team lies not at this level of football, but at elite level, and to the successful re-establishment of reserve leagues. Given the underhand way in which this has been introduced, little faith can be placed in the blandishment that this Colt team proposal is a "pilot", either. Once these teams are introduced there will be no going back.

 

The "piloting" of Colt teams in the challenge cup can hardly be described as a success either in terms of crowds, or in terms of the results for those teams themselves. A recent extensive survey of supporters associations saw opposition to these proposals run 3 : 1 against the introduction of colt teams to the league set-up. Nor does the contention that because the likes of Germany, Portugal and Spain have "B" teams in their league set-up, so should Scotland. Those countries have very different football cultures to ours; moreover, disparities in levels of performance are much more to do with the education of coaches and a functioning training infrastructure. The mere existence of "Colt teams in a league system does not guarantee success.

 

More than any, clubs like ours know that our level of football run on the loyalty of a core supporter base and the goodwill and unrelenting hard work of club boards and administrators. This disastrous plan, poorly thought out and advocated with minimal evidence, threatens to wreck the integrity of league competition at our level. If it is enacted, I know that many fans across the lower leagues- the kind who travel to Annan or Berwick in midweek- will not be back.

 

I hope that, when the question is asked by the SPFL formally, the board of Montrose FC will vote for league integrity and against this proposal, and to be part of a much broader debate which attempts seriously to tackle the deep seated problems with our national side. "Being seen to do something", even if that proposal has absolutely no chance of addressing those problems, is the worst possible thing that could happen both for the club and the semi-professional game at this time.

 

Ivo den Bieman

 

 

[David W]

4 minutes ago, mrman2011 said:

Football manager Scotland Researcher “Ter” is highly in favour of the plans

“There is a lot of benefits to the teams in League Two as well.

- 2 year pilot scheme
- B-Teams play all matches away from home
- 250 tickets per match guaranteed from away supporters (number will be much higher than that in reality)
- Teams have their own identity, manager, coaches and players and they can only move to parent club in transfer windows

It isn't a new concept to Scotland anyway. Stranraer and Annan have reserve teams playing in the South of Scotland League (Level 6) and Stirling University have their reserves in East of Scotland League (Level 6) one step below the Lowland League where their senior team play. If they aren't voted in to League Two then it will likely be the Lowland League with it changing to have a West/East split and other interested teams able to join. They've just never progressed far enough to ask the question. Hibs had their reserve team in one of the lower divisions a few seasons ago and were humping teams 10-0 most weeks and would probably have progressed enough to ask the question but they scrapped it to cut costs after they got relegated.

I don't think the expanding to 12 teams to fit in Rangers/Celtic B teams is the answer either. It needs to come as part of an overall restructure and allow all teams to have B-Teams at the appropriate levels of the pyramid. Hopefully more junior teams will join the pyramid as well like Kelty and Dalkeith.

Having young players playing competitive football will really benefit them, their clubs and the national team and I think it is worth exploring even if it doesn't work out after the 2 years. Nothing to lose really for the teams in League Two and some real increased revenue. If Queen's Park get relegated to League Two and get Rangers/Celtic on board to promote games against them then they could get a big crowd to Hampden for example”
 

Football Manager researcher David W says that's a lot of rubbish.

"Much higher in reality"; absolute nonsense with no basis in fact.

"Teams have their own identity"; yet don't have a home town or community.

"Nothing to lose for teams in League 2"; apart from supporters who are saying they won't be back, and the loss of 125 years of historical competition. Never mind the loss of dignity for accepting a bribe. And less games for supporters to go to.

[RandomGuy.]

36 minutes ago, Sonsteam of 08 said:

This is exactly it. It's exactly what I put in my email to the club, and it's exactly what I put on our Facebook group back in July when we were drawn against Rangers U20s.

Beating Annan to win the Third Division title in 08/09 was my favourite day in football. I flitted in and out of love with it when I was younger - mainly because we were fairly gubbins, and that's difficult to take for an eight year old! Me, my brother, my Dad, my Granda and my Papa all squeezed into the same car. Three generations of Sons fan (although my Granda does have strong feelings for a certain Glasgow team...). As an 11 year old the players were my heroes, I can still name the team off by heart (McEwan, Lennon, Boyle, Dunlop, Gordon, Clark, McStay, Forbes, McLaughlin, Carcary, Murray), looking back it's one of those moments where time seemed to stand still. I can still remember what I did in the morning before the game, the journey down (it rained just as we got beyond Lesmahagow), my Granda had his scarf out the window and I was terrified it would blow away. I remember where I stood in each half. I remember the announcer saying "Could the owner of a VW Passat..." then tailing off as we scored. I remember getting my picture taken post-match with Derek Carcary, then at the Rock with Stevie Murray and the trophy itself. I remember David McEwan signing songs about Danny Lennon.

Lets re-write it for 20 years time, when (if) I'm taking my own kids to watch us win a title. We're playing Rangers B (which they will be by this point) at Auchenhowie. There are no home fans, we win 3-1 to win the title by finishing fourth (behind Hearts, Hibs, Rangers and Celtic B). There are few Sons fans left, the players are wasting their time in a competitive reserve league. We get the trophy outside the Rangers training centre. A trophy. For coming fourth. Imagine being a kid and going in to school all delighted that your team have won the league (like I was back in 09) to tell the OF supporting masses that you actually finished behind their reserves.

Apologies for going all emotional there. I just love writing about that team.

Aye, but what about the National Team. 

[Ivo den Bieman]

just ignore the troll. he's not here to debate. there's one or two other serious fans who seem to be in favour.

[an86]

Queen’s Park “firmly” against this in the response emailed to me.

[Ira Gaines]

Still no response from Morton, which is fairly shite tbh.

[peternapper]

Does anyone know when this is to be decided, has there been a date set for a vote?

[oneteaminglasgow]

Still no response from Morton, which is fairly shite tbh.

Aye I’ve had f**k all from Thistle, despite emailing on Monday. Giving them a bit of leeway given there was a game last night but still.

[Hammerafc]

I like how the article on BBC mentions fans would like a change to the current 10 team league as playing each other 4 times is not great. Why they think 6 home games against old firm diddies will make fans rejoice is beyond me. I certainly wouldn't go and watch any of these games and if my club voted in favour I would not be attending in the future. Would rather go and watch the juniors.

[Ivo den Bieman]

3 leagues of fourteen. thanks.

re-start the reserve leagues and put in a rule that only four "age" players can start the match- rest of the team to be youngsters.

if loads of youngesters are cooling their heels and not getting a game, loan them out (extend this ystem maybe?) or, sorry, reduce the size of squads.

re-evaulate after five years. no changes permitted until sufficient long term evidence gathered.

in that period, a broader, open debate involving all clubs at all levels on the national team and how to help imrpvoe it properly- rather than just masking a power grab by the Old Firm as benefitting the national team. No sneaky underhand slipping out of proposals with massive opposition as has been done here.

it's not so hard, is it?

the governance of the game in this country is of such poor quality it's no wonder the national team is struggling. as always those responsible for this farce will be the last to be held to account.

[Cowden Cowboy]

12 minutes ago, peternapper said:

Does anyone know when this is to be decided, has there been a date set for a vote?

No date set for a vote - these are consultations

[parsforlife]

Response from our SLO isn't comprehensive as our board haven't discussed the revised proposals yet.  However he is anticipating our answer will be the same as in June. (which was to get it in the fucking sea)

 

[scot-gcar709]

i'm sorry but these proposals are a load of crap. The SPFL seems quite happy to invalidate one of their league competitions to make up for their own and the SFAs inability to create a structure in Scotland that brings young players through. However the people that will need to suffer this garbage are those of us who chose to support a small team, presumably watches enough crap football each week anyway without the added detriment of watching the old firms u20 teams who have nothing to bloody play for! 

[peternapper]

7 minutes ago, Cowden Cowboy said:

No date set for a vote - these are consultations

Just wondered as before the start of this season I made a point of seeing our chairman to ask how the club would vote  on the colts thing that was going on at the time, was told then that it was consultations that were going on so could not say  how a vote would be followed through by the club. Made it clear if the club supported the colts vote that I would not be buying a season then or in the future as would not be prepared to support a league system that had been made worthless. Will try & find out if the club are prepared to say whether in favour or against the latest debacle & if the wrong answer is given would be looking to local junior football in the future.