California as separate nation

[Deplorable]

California was never really part of Mexico. There were a couple decades where the few thousand "Mexicans" (the Spanish speakers there would not have thought of themselves as Mexicans) were technically part of the Mexican state as a fact of international law, but were in pretty constant rebellion. By the time of the Mexican American war the population of California was probably: 1. Indians, 2. Americans, 3. "Mexicans." 

There have been polls done in Mexico which show that a majority of people in Mexico think the US Southwest is rightfully theirs, despite the fact that neither the Spanish speaking people or the Indians there at the time when Americans started arriving wanted to be part of Mexico.

As for the California secession specifically, I do suspect that there's a decent chance that the US could partially break apart in my lifetime. It seems to me that a continent wide country can't hold together when you add multicultural identity differences to the already problematic geographic differences. I suspect that only very small countries can maintain any type of unity long term when their core identity is multicultural. I've only seen one poll that broke down support for secession by race, but support was much, much higher among Hispanics than whites and blacks. Three immediate issues would rise from California secession. The first would be inland California which would overwhelming vote against. Would they be able to form a loyal California government? If not would there be armed resistance? The second would be how white and black people in other states with large Hispanic populations would react towards their own Hispanic populations? The third is how would this affect how political bonds are viewed in other parts of the US and Canada? Once a domino has fallen do they keep going? 

[The_Kincardine]

12 minutes ago, Deplorable said:

California was never really part of Mexico. There were a couple decades where the few thousand "Mexicans" (the Spanish speakers there would not have thought of themselves as Mexicans) were technically part of the Mexican state.

"Technically" eh?

[Granny Danger]

Given the attitude of many of the redneck types to the Federal Government you would imagine that they would support this idea.  Split up the US into its constituent parts; no more big government; the big wealthy wealth (Democrat voting) states will do well; the less wealthy (Republican voting) states* will do badly.  Sounds good.

 

*There are exceptions.

[welshbairn]

54 minutes ago, Deplorable said:

California was never really part of Mexico. There were a couple decades where the few thousand "Mexicans" (the Spanish speakers there would not have thought of themselves as Mexicans) were technically part of the Mexican state as a fact of international law, but were in pretty constant rebellion. By the time of the Mexican American war the population of California was probably: 1. Indians, 2. Americans, 3. "Mexicans." 

There have been polls done in Mexico which show that a majority of people in Mexico think the US Southwest is rightfully theirs, despite the fact that neither the Spanish speaking people or the Indians there at the time when Americans started arriving wanted to be part of Mexico.

 

Aye, just like there were no Palestinians before the State of Israel. Makes you wonder why most of the cities and towns have Spanish names.

[The_Kincardine]

7 minutes ago, welshbairn said:

Aye, just like there were no Palestinians before the State of Israel. Makes you wonder why most of the cities and towns have Spanish names.

Like Portobello?

[Zen Archer (Raconteur)]

2 minutes ago, The_Kincardine said:

Like Portobello?

Q, What's the difference between California and Portobello?

Spoiler

 

 

[welshbairn]

6 minutes ago, The_Kincardine said:

Like Portobello?

Not quite.

 

[The_Kincardine]

2 minutes ago, welshbairn said:

Not quite.

 

Aye, very good.  Not a chance they have a pokey hat like you'd get from Luca's in Mussleburgh.

[welshbairn]

4 minutes ago, The_Kincardine said:

Aye, very good.  Not a chance they have a pokey hat like you'd get from Luca's in Mussleburgh.

It's actually a house, I thought it was a resort. Astonishing what money can buy. And it's Italian, Portabello.

http://www.portabello.com/

 

[Jacksgranda]

2 hours ago, welshbairn said:

I actually knew that, I was teasing Willie a bit.

You shouldn't tease Willie - he takes these posts a wee bit seriously at times. Teasing isn't good for a man of his advanced years.

[Thistle_do_nicely]

Looking forward to seeing the New California Republic forming, *not* looking forward to Trump styling himself after Caesar, forming the Legion and waging a campaign of terror across the Mojave tbh

edit: I like the shout of California Love as national anthem, although a song from famous Cali funk rockers the Red Hot Chili Peppers where they mention California would be a good shout too, not sure how often they mention California in their music tho tbh

[Jacksgranda]

1 hour ago, Deplorable said:

California was never really part of Mexico. There were a couple decades where the few thousand "Mexicans" (the Spanish speakers there would not have thought of themselves as Mexicans) were technically part of the Mexican state as a fact of international law 

 

1 hour ago, The_Kincardine said:

"Technically" eh?

Good point, well made.

[Cerberus]

Roon ye Oregon. 

[The_Kincardine]

5 minutes ago, Jacksgranda said:

 

Good point, well made.

I love how these words are used.  You live in Ireland, technically, eg.

[The_Kincardine]

1 minute ago, Cerberus said:

Roon ye Oregon. 

Where has Oregon, boys?

[Zen Archer (Raconteur)]

2 minutes ago, The_Kincardine said:

Where has Oregon, boys?

 

[DutchBorderer]

If California were to secede, I'd love to see what happens with the rest of the US, given the importance of its liberal weight;

 

[topcat(The most tip top)]

It's actually a house, I thought it was a resort. Astonishing what money can buy. And it's Italian, Portabello.
http://www.portabello.com/
 

As opposed to Portobello (without an "a") which is from the Spanish

[welshbairn]

Just now, topcat(The most tip top) said:

 

As opposed to Portobello (without an "a") which is from the Spanish

 

Yes, you're quite the linguist. Portobello is named after some malaria infested bog in Panama.

[Fullerene]

Is California really totally different from the rest of America?

I am no doubt that living in San Francisco is probably different to living in Kansas or Nebraska but isn't that true of most countries.

The US Electoral system suggests EVERBODY in California is a Democrat while EVERYBODY in Kansas is a Republican.
I suspect it is not that clear cut.

California had Arnold Schwarznegger as Governor (as well as Ronald Reagan come to think of it) - and Richard Nixon was from California as well.
Clint Eastwood was mayor of Carmel - imposing a staunch left wing agenda there - or have I got that wrong.