Polling: 2017 General Election, Council Elections and Independence

[Dan Steele]

11 minutes ago, Baxter Parp said:

Tories will just invoke Brexit thinking and disapply voting rights in a very specific and limited way. Only over 55s allowed to vote in the upcoming referendum.

[Blootoon87]

Old b*****ds are always the problem.

[Mr Heliums]

On 19/08/2020 at 23:51, GTG_03 said:

Yeah that's true and folk should see it as the desperate acts that they are. Another plus is this Johnson government continuing to be a shambles and with Brexit incoming I can see polls hitting the high 50s at least. Should really pile the pressure on.

And yet another plus – we haven't heard the 'the people in Scotland do not want another referendum' for a while now. They used to trot that out daily.

[speckled tangerine]

1 hour ago, Mr Heliums said:

And yet another plus – we haven't heard the 'the people in Scotland do not want another referendum' for a while now. They used to trot that out daily.

Funny that.

It's all suddenly all about an Independent Shetland. "They'll have all the oil and you will have nothing" etc, etc   Despite the fact the oil being worth f**k all anyway by all accounts. You can literally smell the fear. 

It's glorious.

 

 

[Antlion]

Judging by the huge majority of younger voters favouring independence, it can’t escape the UK government nor the English parliament that Scotland will achieve independence in the future. The question is when.

One thing that doesn’t seem to be much talked about is how this actually means that the sooner we go for it the better. If Westminster realises that Scotland will go and banks on it being later rather than sooner, they will have every reason to suck the nation dry whilst they can (and before the old voters die off and take the idea of Scottish dependency being right with them).

The more people realise that the sheer weight of support for independence amongst the young makes it inevitable, the more folk will hopefully realise we would be better going for it now rather than letting the Tories ravage f**k out of Scotland until we’re ruined and they happily let us crawl off, bloodied and potless, in forty years.

[trainspotter]

Another one who appears to be losing their mind, highly questionable use of list polling notwithstanding 

 

 

[Mr Heliums]

9 hours ago, speckled tangerine said:

Funny that.

It's all suddenly all about an Independent Shetland. "They'll have all the oil and you will have nothing" etc, etc   Despite the fact the oil being worth f**k all anyway by all accounts. You can literally smell the fear. 

And an independent Orkney now.  Amazing how quickly Unionist arguments have sunk to the fantasist level. The only other thing they'll have to bring out of their armoury will be the 'personal abuse/anti-English' stuff that they manage to concoct every time.

[Colkitto]

From 2014 to 2020 pro indy side has risen approximately 10% with no meaningful campaign.

10% in six years. Where will we be in 5 years? 

2021 - Holyrood election will be the independence election. If the SNP or the Holyrood parliament get an overall majority then they will request a S30 to hold another independence referendum.

2022 - Constitutional turmoil as the UK Gov continues to say No. Scottish Gov consider all options including Obsructionism at Westminster, Legal fight, International help and mass protest - people power.

2023 - UK Gov stance not tenable as it becomes a matter of democracy itself. Reluctant agreement on S30. Indyref2 held immediately with Yes side winning 62% of the vote

2024 - Negotiations between Scottish and rUK Governments on Scotland leaving the UK and becoming an Independent Country.

2025 - Scotland becomes an Independent Country and is accepted into the EU almost immediately. 

[John Lambies Doos]

It's interesting to review this against the 2014 vote. Trend is definitely in our favour, but people certainly become more conservative as they get older..
It's only a matter of time..

[O'Kelly Isley III]

It's interesting to review this against the 2014 vote. Trend is definitely in our favour, but people certainly become more conservative as they get older..
It's only a matter of time..

Some people may well get more conservative as they get older but whether they want to vote for THIS Conservative Party is another matter entirely. And consider this; for every 10 elderly people in Scotland who die and are replaced on the Electoral Register by new voters the major beneficiaries would be the Independence Parties. If the younger folk can be encouraged to turn out then at some point the numbers become unstoppable.

[Granny Danger]

The political landscape has changed significantly since the Independence  Referendum.  The lies and scare stories that will be told by the NO campaign next time around will be far greater and more heavily orchestrated that the last time around.

[O'Kelly Isley III]

The political landscape has changed significantly since the Independence  Referendum.  The lies and scare stories that will be told by the NO campaign next time around will be far greater and more heavily orchestrated that the last time around.

Nobody needs to tell lies and scare stories Granny, they are now the currency of Westminster politics, and that's before the UK falls off the Brexit cliff. The Unionist narrative will have to become 'look, we know this is an utter disaster, but exiting this disaster will be even more disastrous'. Maybe get Baroness Davidson to lead on that one.

[welshbairn]

1 hour ago, O'Kelly Isley III said:

2 hours ago, John Lambies Doos said:

It's interesting to review this against the 2014 vote. Trend is definitely in our favour, but people certainly become more conservative as they get older..
It's only a matter of time..

Some people may well get more conservative as they get older but whether they want to vote for THIS Conservative Party is another matter entirely. And consider this; for every 10 elderly people in Scotland who die and are replaced on the Electoral Register by new voters the major beneficiaries would be the Independence Parties. If the younger folk can be encouraged to turn out then at some point the numbers become unstoppable.

It's not a Conservative Party anymore, they're more like nihilist anarchists. Smash the System! That's why some of the left despise them less than the boring centrists. They fall for the "taking on the global elite" line.

[BFTD]

2 hours ago, Granny Danger said:

The political landscape has changed significantly since the Independence  Referendum.  The lies and scare stories that will be told by the NO campaign next time around will be far greater and more heavily orchestrated that the last time around.

For the unionist side, the original independence referendum was dominated by tales of the terrible things that the outside world would do to us if we left the UK. As most of those things have either happened anyway, or seem more and more like fantasy, a future referendum would likely have to include an stronger element of, "if you leave, we'll make sure you suffer". It'll be interesting to see how Scotland reacts to that.

Anyway, how are you? Why the recent obsession with armed insurrection?

[NotThePars]

It's not a Conservative Party anymore, they're more like nihilist anarchists. Smash the System! That's why some of the left despise them less than the boring centrists. They fall for the "taking on the global elite" line.

Who are these specific left figures that fall for the taking on the global elite line I am genuinely curious

[welshbairn]

18 minutes ago, NotThePars said:

 

Who are these specific left figures that fall for the taking on the global elite line I am genuinely curious

 

Nobody in particular, but references to Soros, Gates and the Rothschilds pop up enough to make me think some of them have more bro love  for the populist Right than with social democrats or liberal democracy

[NotThePars]

1 minute ago, welshbairn said:

Nobody in particular, but references to Soros, Gates and the Rothschilds pop up enough to make me think some of them have more bro love  for the populist Right than with social democrats or liberal democracy

Who's "some of them' though? Are they in any way significant or representative of a wide range of people or thought on the left?

[Granny Danger]

59 minutes ago, BigFatTabbyDave said:

For the unionist side, the original independence referendum was dominated by tales of the terrible things that the outside world would do to us if we left the UK. As most of those things have either happened anyway, or seem more and more like fantasy, a future referendum would likely have to include an stronger element of, "if you leave, we'll make sure you suffer". It'll be interesting to see how Scotland reacts to that.

Anyway, how are you? Why the recent obsession with armed insurrection?

Seriously not an obsession.  Despite all the warts of ‘Parliamentary democracy’ it is a democracy of sorts and has a level of legitimacy.  It is less legitimate at U.K. level due to FPTP but neither is it undemocratic.

However when if the rights of the Scottish electorate are simply ignored then direct action, up to and including the most extreme form, is not only legitimate but is wholly justified.

I argue that position in other countries where the democratic rights of its citizens are denied and it is no less legitimate in our country.

No one is claiming that a majority vote for pro-Independence parties next year gives us the right to claim independence but it certainly gives the elected government the right to insist upon a further Referendum.

 

 

[welshbairn]

23 minutes ago, NotThePars said:

Who's "some of them' though? Are they in any way significant or representative of a wide range of people or thought on the left?

I'm not well up on who's who on the left anymore, and I don't suppose the likes of Gorgeous George would do? 

I pretty much agree with this..

https://www.opendemocracy.net/en/opendemocracyuk/elites-right-wing-populism-and-left/ 

[Guest Bob Mahelp]

18 hours ago, NotThePars said:

 

Who are these specific left figures that fall for the taking on the global elite line I am genuinely curious

 

Well, over in The Telegraph you have Tom Harris....ex-Labour MP in Glasgow and once a committed Trade Unionist...churning out daily right-wing garbage now that he's become full on Tory. He seems quite taken by the Cummings/Johnson experiment.

And going by the number of Labour MPs that lost 'safe' seats in the last GE, the Tory message of 'taking on the establishment' obviously appealed to some who would never have considered voting Tory before.