Oor Nicola Sturgeon thread.

[John Lambies Doos]

Correct me if I am wrong - but weren't you strongly pro-Labour at one point?

What changed your mind?

And Anti Independence.... Would be interesting to profile what changed Magyar's mind....

[ayrmad]

38 minutes ago, paolo2143 said:

A very sensible approach. I know a couple of Indy supporters who are definitely not NS fans and are angry aboy the way she handled the AS enquiry. However like you they know that if we don't have a pro Indy majority on May 7th , then the "game's a bogey" as we used to say.

I think the game's a bogey now, I'll still hold my nose and vote for her in the slight hope that I'm wrong. 

[ayrmad]

1 hour ago, ICTJohnboy said:

 

They all come round, sooner or later.

DTED certainly won't argue with you. 

[John Lambies Doos]

I think the game's a bogey now, I'll still hold my nose and vote for her in the slight hope that I'm wrong. 

Not according to the bookies...

[ayrmad]

Just now, John Lambies Doos said:

Not according to the bookies...

I was talking about independence. 

[Highlandmagar]

2 hours ago, DeeTillEhDeh said:

Correct me if I am wrong - but weren't you strongly pro-Labour at one point?

What changed your mind?

The Tories being in permanent power no matter how corrupt and vile they are( Labour  will never win again) and Brexit.

[The Ghost of B A R P]

On 04/03/2021 at 22:36, Henderson to deliver ..... said:

She is one of, if not the most popular politicians in the UK, popular with vital demographics that will be needed to get independence over the line. Women, parents, the young, the middle class. After this burn the witch, Trumpian 'lock her up' campaign, ensuring she carries the can for what is ultimately the unacceptable behaviour of her predecessor and his desire to massage his bruised ego, who are you suggesting replaces her ? Joanna Cherry ? Salmond himself ? How about the Rev Stu ?

As for your second question, I have no idea, I'm not an SNP strategist, or even a voter at the moment. I suspect that they will again ask for a referendum, be refused, and then look into any other options that are available.

First part of that is precisely what I was telling myself up to a year ago to excuse her failures over Brexit and the 2019 election. It's no longer nearly enough, I'm afraid.

Second part demonstrates that you're still, in a nutshell, buying into the sustained smear campaign. She isn't paying the price for anyone's behaviour but her own.

Your answer to the last part is as good as any answer an SNP 'strategist' would give: they really have no idea whatsoever, to the point where Blackford is bleating on about the 'possibility' of a referendum before the end of 2021... aye, I know... Most likely outcome is that nothing will happen, cos reasons...

Finally, I'll assume none of your 'suggestions' for next leader are entirely serious (but note that you couldn't resist the last one, for reasons that entirely escape me).

My view is that Cherry will never be leader of the SNP; that Salmond will probably never again be a member of the SNP; and I have no idea what the other guy's plans might be (you mentioned him, I didn't).

If Sturgeon goes soon, Forbes or Brown might find themselves in a role neither would choose. If the psychos running the SNP persist with the notion that Robertson is next... oh my...

[John Lambies Doos]

First part of that is precisely what I was telling myself up to a year ago to excuse her failures over Brexit and the 2019 election. It's no longer nearly enough, I'm afraid.
Second part demonstrates that you're still, in a nutshell, buying into the sustained smear campaign. She isn't paying the price for anyone's behaviour but her own.
Your answer to the last part is as good as any answer an SNP 'strategist' would give: they really have no idea whatsoever, to the point where Blackford is bleating on about the 'possibility' of a referendum before the end of 2021... aye, I know... Most likely outcome is that nothing will happen, cos reasons...
Finally, I'll assume none of your 'suggestions' for next leader are entirely serious (but note that you couldn't resist the last one, for reasons that entirely escape me).
My view is that Cherry will never be leader of the SNP; that Salmond will probably never again be a member of the SNP; and I have no idea what the other guy's plans might be (you mentioned him, I didn't).
If Sturgeon goes soon, Forbes or Brown might find themselves in a role neither would choose. If the psychos running the SNP persist with the notion that Robertson is next... oh my...

Not sure you realise that Sturgeon is going no where soon

[Londonwell]

31 minutes ago, The Ghost of B A R P said:

First part of that is precisely what I was telling myself up to a year ago to excuse her failures over Brexit and the 2019 election. It's no longer nearly enough, I'm afraid.

Second part demonstrates that you're still, in a nutshell, buying into the sustained smear campaign. She isn't paying the price for anyone's behaviour but her own.

Your answer to the last part is as good as any answer an SNP 'strategist' would give: they really have no idea whatsoever, to the point where Blackford is bleating on about the 'possibility' of a referendum before the end of 2021... aye, I know... Most likely outcome is that nothing will happen, cos reasons...

Finally, I'll assume none of your 'suggestions' for next leader are entirely serious (but note that you couldn't resist the last one, for reasons that entirely escape me).

My view is that Cherry will never be leader of the SNP; that Salmond will probably never again be a member of the SNP; and I have no idea what the other guy's plans might be (you mentioned him, I didn't).

If Sturgeon goes soon, Forbes or Brown might find themselves in a role neither would choose. If the psychos running the SNP persist with the notion that Robertson is next... oh my...

Love your energy.

[The Ghost of B A R P]

On 05/03/2021 at 02:44, paolo2143 said:

The point about Nigel Farage was, that unlike the small hardcore but very vocal Indy supporters, he never lost focus on what was the most important thing to him which was Brexit.

He put aside his own views on Tory party and own political Glory to ensure the Tories won as he knew this was the only way to get Brexit "done"

He could have ranted & raved about how he felt Boris' Brexit wasn't ideal or that people shouldn't vote for the Tories, but he knew this could lead to a pro remain Parliament and death knell of Brexit, so he put any personal misgivings aside to ensure his lifetime goal happened.

I wish the hardcore Indy voters relentlessly determined to bring down FM before May's elections would realise they may kill of their dream for decades in doing so.

As for saying Jim Mitchell sounded bitter, that is for all to see when he started ranting about being grateful she didn't have access to Military weapons. What relevance did that have.  It sounded like an over the top reaction so yes i would say he sounded like someone with an axe to grind. 

Not sure if this is whoosh, but you appear to be suggesting Farage should be commended for not losing focus... so that makes him more like Sturgeon than Salmond?

Sturgeon has clearly 'lost focus' in relation to her 'lifetime goal'. She's effectively holding her core vote to ransom over it, while doing close to zero to achieve it.

Mitchell's point -- and I agree with him -- is simply that Sturgeon looks more and more like a Poundshop Blair, but that thankfully there's a limit to the damage she can do.

On 05/03/2021 at 09:43, SandyCromarty said:

Not the case at all, Nicola during the ongoing Brexit fiasco travelled to Brussels and had talks with Michel Barnier, during that an illumination was projected onto the EU Brussels HQ of Scotland loves Europe.

The SNP presently maintains direct contact with EU states and so on.

The SNP has set up Innovation and Investment Hubs  in Brussels, Paris and Dublin.

So yes the SNP are very quietly associating with the EU, don't forget the SNP have established a Central Bank as required by the EU application for membership process.

BUT, this is all in the background as the Pandemic takes priority.

 

On 05/03/2021 at 13:39, DeeTillEhDeh said:

I have him on ignore and missed that beauty.

Anyone who thinks the SNP did nothing during the Brexit fiasco is living in an alternate reality.

It's actually the one thing that has united both sides of the party.

And there we have it. Complete, total, and utter political illiteracy wrapped up in complete, total, and utter delusion. I guess you have to believe that it's other people who are living in an alternative reality to sustain delusion on that scale.

Sturgeon 'travelled to Brussels'? We maintain 'direct contact'? We're 'quietly associating with the EU'? I've misjudged her. We truly have a Martin Luther King in our midst.

The sad and plain truth of the reality that is clearly an optional alternative to the Dundee boy is that Scotland used to be part of the EU; Scotland is no longer part of the EU; and Nicola Sturgeon got every strategic choice in that process wrong, culminating in giving a cornered Tory party a way out of the fiasco they themselves had created.

Mr Blackford told me on the telly about a thousand times that 'Scotland would not be dragged out of the EU against its will'. He is a top boy.

You're delusional. Brexit was the kind of historic open goal that maybe doesn't come again... and the SNP blew it. (No one's saying, btw, that Scotland would have been independent by now if different choices had been made; but we'd have been much further down the road.)

As for that last bit about that failed strategy uniting the fucking party... you're either a troll or even dumber than I thought was possible (both?).  

22 hours ago, NotThePars said:

I get the criticism of people who expected to see more of an overt strategy of pushing for independence but it's pretty obvious that Sturgeon's tactic has been to be seen exhausting every possible avenue of working within the UK given the 2014 result so that the shift towards pushing for indyref2 isn't just seen as opportunism. Which also bears out with Sturgeon's natural cautiousness and how explicitly non-radical the SNP are. And the polling is bearing that strategy out for now. 

Fair enough, that's a significantly more nuanced take than the guff above... but you're still telling yourself that the strategy is more right than wrong. It might very well be for a fundamentally devolutionist 'naturally cautious' system politician like Sturgeon; but it was and is a bizarre way to proceed if independence is the priority (cf. Farage, above).

17 hours ago, DeeTillEhDeh said:

17 hours ago, Gordon EF said:

I still find the fact that the Yes da's think that if only they'd been calling the shots that we'd be independent by now to be breath-takingly deluded.

It's delusional pish of the first degree.

Don't encourage him (and see above for an answer to your daft 'point').

Everybody is deluded... except the sleverin moron suffering from multiple delusions.

[The Ghost of B A R P]

4 minutes ago, Londonwell said:

Love your energy.

Appreciate your brevity.

[The Ghost of B A R P]

23 minutes ago, John Lambies Doos said:

37 minutes ago, The Ghost of B A R P said:

First part of that is precisely what I was telling myself up to a year ago to excuse her failures over Brexit and the 2019 election. It's no longer nearly enough, I'm afraid.
Second part demonstrates that you're still, in a nutshell, buying into the sustained smear campaign. She isn't paying the price for anyone's behaviour but her own.
Your answer to the last part is as good as any answer an SNP 'strategist' would give: they really have no idea whatsoever, to the point where Blackford is bleating on about the 'possibility' of a referendum before the end of 2021... aye, I know... Most likely outcome is that nothing will happen, cos reasons...
Finally, I'll assume none of your 'suggestions' for next leader are entirely serious (but note that you couldn't resist the last one, for reasons that entirely escape me).
My view is that Cherry will never be leader of the SNP; that Salmond will probably never again be a member of the SNP; and I have no idea what the other guy's plans might be (you mentioned him, I didn't).
If Sturgeon goes soon, Forbes or Brown might find themselves in a role neither would choose. If the psychos running the SNP persist with the notion that Robertson is next... oh my...

Not sure you realise that Sturgeon is going no where soon

Quit making shite posts and put your money where your mouth is...

[SandyCromarty]

Letter from Nicola Sturgeon to Europe regarding the UK leaving the European Union.

Published:

 

31 Jan 2020

First Minister's letter to Europe: 31 January 2020

 

Dear  European friends and neighbours

The UK is leaving the European Union this evening. Those are words I had hoped never to have to write. Not least because an overwhelming majority of people in Scotland did not vote for this. 

Scotland is a proud European nation and I profoundly regret the UK’s decision to leave. The European Union has brought together like-minded, independent nations on equal terms to work together for the mutual benefit of all our citizens.

These benefits, including being part of a single market of more than 500 million people, have been well rehearsed in economic terms. But today is not about numbers - it is about people.

Scotland is home to more than 230,000 EU citizens, who are welcome in Scotland as our friends and family. These are people who contribute to Scotland’s vibrant cultural diversity, who save lives in our health service, who teach our children and who have built homes and businesses across the country.

From the very start of the Brexit process I have been clear that Scotland remains their home and they are welcome to stay. Likewise, many thousands of Scots have made their home in countries across Europe and I am grateful for the warm welcome they continue to receive.

Scotland may lie on the edge of Europe, but we have always been – and want to remain – at its heart. Scots have benefitted hugely from being able to live, work and travel in the rest of the European Union.  The links between the people of Scotland and nations across the European Union run deep. 

I believe that Scotland has the right to choose its own future and that the best option for Scotland is to be an independent country, in the EU. In the meantime we will stand shoulder to shoulder with the rest of Europe around our shared values and interests.

The UK’s exit from the EU may be marked with celebrations by some in other parts of the UK, but I am writing to you today – a very symbolic day - to send a strong message of solidarity, and of hope, to our European friends and neighbours. Scotland very much hopes to resume our membership of the European Union in the future, as an equal member.

It would mean a great deal for the people of Scotland to know that our European friends stand in solidarity with us at this time. 

Please leave a light on for Scotland.

Nicola Sturgeon
First Minister of Scotland

This letter was also sent in the following languages - French, German, Dutch, Swedish, Finnish, Italian, Spanish and Polish.

[BFTD]

If someone could submit abbreviations of Barp's posts, that would be just swell. I'd love to give them the attention they deserve, but haven't made it through one yet.

[NotThePars]

1 hour ago, The Ghost of B A R P said:

Fair enough, that's a significantly more nuanced take than the guff above... but you're still telling yourself that the strategy is more right than wrong. It might very well be for a fundamentally devolutionist 'naturally cautious' system politician like Sturgeon; but it was and is a bizarre way to proceed if independence is the priority (cf. Farage, above).

 

I'm not telling myself anything. There's several posts of mine going back to last January (2020) at least saying the independence movement should be preparing for extra and non-parliamentary action to force the issue but if Sturgeon's strategy is to win over a sustained majority in polling without causing a Catalonian style fracas or open clashes (non-violent or otherwise) with Westminster that scares away the soft voters then the polling is bearing that out.

 

What do you personally think should've been done between 2016-2021 to get us much further forward?

[SandyCromarty]

23 minutes ago, BFTD said:

If someone could submit abbreviations of Barp's posts, that would be just swell. I'd love to give them the attention they deserve, but haven't made it through one yet.

He loves to pontificate and he adores the sound of his own keyboard.

 

Edited March 6, 2021 by SandyCromarty

[Dawson Park Boy]

42 minutes ago, SandyCromarty said:

He loves to pontificate and he adores the sound of his own keyboard.

 

I disagree.

I am nowhere near to him as regards politics but his analysis of events is very illuminating and very thought provoking.

Most posters, especially Sandy, swallow everything given to them by the SNP without questioning.

As examples, for sometime, I have tried to find out the current membership of the SNP. No response.

I have also tried to find out where the hypothecated fighting fund of £600k is within their accounts when there is only £97k on their Balance Sheet. No response.

Sandy - can you help as you appear to be ‘in the know’?

[The Ghost of B A R P]

1 hour ago, BFTD said:

If someone could submit abbreviations of Barp's posts, that would be just swell. I'd love to give them the attention they deserve, but haven't made it through one yet.

^^^^^ Can’t read.

42 minutes ago, SandyCromarty said:

He loves to pontificate and he adores the sound of his own keyboard.

 

Aye, anybody with the faintest idea of what they’re talking about who offers a view you don’t agree with is definitely ‘pontificating’. Definitely. It says so in the dictionary.

Also, thanks for the reminder that Nicola wrote a letter.

It’s almost as if, rather than make any meaningful political decisions, all she has to do is keep churning out performative garbage that will be lapped up by an almost literally captive audience....

[The Ghost of B A R P]

59 minutes ago, NotThePars said:

 

I'm not telling myself anything. There's several posts of mine going back to last January (2020) at least saying the independence movement should be preparing for extra and non-parliamentary action to force the issue but if Sturgeon's strategy is to win over a sustained majority in polling without causing a Catalonian style fracas or open clashes (non-violent or otherwise) with Westminster that scares away the soft voters then the polling is bearing that out.

 

What do you personally think should've been done between 2016-2021 to get us much further forward?

I’ve already told you (and I’m getting a bit of grief for going on a bit, so I’ll leave you to find the post, if you’re interested).

[NotThePars]

3 minutes ago, The Ghost of B A R P said:

I’ve already told you (and I’m getting a bit of grief for going on a bit, so I’ll leave you to find the post, if you’re interested).

If you can provide a link to said post that would be appreciated because I can't see any to hand, just criticisms of what Sturgeon did.