Oor Nicola Sturgeon thread.

[paolo2143]

4 hours ago, The Ghost of B A R P said:

The truth is in there.

But it got lost somewhere along the way.

The 'attacks' are simply not going to stop, because the political classes know they have an endless supply of material and there's no way the Unionists (who have little else) are not going to use it. I happen to think Hamilton will find her guilty of 'technical' breaches and she'll continue to tough it out... but it won't go away, because it runs too deep and too many people know what happened (although maybe not very many at all have a clear handle on the extent and nature of Sturgeon's involvement; but that won't matter in the end).

As for the 'hardcore' Yessers who've parted company with her... no point in reasoning with the crazy indoctrinated fools, eh? The mad b*****ds seem to think that the Unionist establishment finally getting to Sturgeon during an election campaign or even (no laughing) during a referendum campaign would be much worse than her bowing to the inevitable now! Crazed, drunken, etc, etc...

Must justa woke up one day and decided they didn't like her, something like that...

Sure, the opposition would celebrate a resignation... but that buries Sturgeon, not the SNP. A full-on 'disgraced in public office scenario' blows a large hole in the independence movement.

Whether you want to believe it or not, the only outcomes over the next few months (maybe longer) are 'not great', 'really pretty bad', and 'holy f**k'.

Her political career is approaching its end.

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p.s. she has clearly and deliberately breached the ministerial code, but I'm almost past caring alongside the rest of the shambles.

 

Maybe her Political career will come to an end sometime in near future.

But i still totally disagree that her resigning just now in lead up to election would be a good thing. Maybe if election was 8 months away but not 8 weeks.

If she goes now i would bet my bottom dollar that the Tory media/press would exploit this far more than her staying and a leaderless SNP will get destroyed in elections. The reason they are trying to get rid of her is they fear her unlike any other potential SNP leader at moment.

Unless James Hamilton report finds that she deliberately lied to parliament and broke the code, she doesn't need to resign and nor should she.

Nicola Sturgeon is a great campaigner and debater and she will do well in these debates leading up to election. I think with her the SNP can still do really well in May's elections but without her they are in much deeper trouble.

I would prefer her to stay and then decide her future after 7 May.

[Guest Bob Mahelp]

Meghan has bared her soul to Oprah, so Nicola is no longer the right-wing press's number one hate figure.

She'll be grateful for the break from their lies. No doubt at it'll be back to normal in a few days. 

 

 

[John Lambies Doos]

Sevco saved by Markle

[SANTAN]

1 hour ago, Bob Mahelp said:

Meghan has bared her soul to Oprah, so Nicola is no longer the right-wing press's number one hate figure.

She'll be grateful for the break from their lies. No doubt at it'll be back to normal in a few days. 

 

 

How do you bare your soul out of curiosity? 

[Detournement]

On 07/03/2021 at 06:27, Dunning1874 said:

Huge fan of conspiracy theorists asking for evidence on other points, while claiming there was a conspiracy to frame Alex Salmond and presenting no evidence for it.

There is evidence in the form of WhatsApp messages between the conspirators, false testimony from an accuser and the Court of Session verdict. 

[DeeTillEhDeh]

There is evidence in the form of WhatsApp messages between the conspirators, false testimony from an accuser and the Court of Session verdict. 

If you think people have said anything of note in a WhatsApp conversation you are deluded.

People don't tend to put in writing anything incriminating.

[Detournement]

18 minutes ago, DeeTillEhDeh said:

If you think people have said anything of note in a WhatsApp conversation you are deluded.

People don't tend to put in writing anything incriminating.

 

Messages between Murrell and Riddick and another sent by the liar Woman H which point to a conspiracy have been published. 

[paolo2143]

Even Alex Salmond said he had no direct evidence FM was involved in conspiracy.

There seems to be some trying to prtray Alex Salmond as a martyr in this affair.

Yes he was acquitted of 12 out of 13 charges and other not proven, but his own defence lawyer actually said during his trial that he was not there to defend some of his behaviour which was extremely inappropriate at times. There is also plenty of allegations from Non SNP sources that he was a bully while in office.

Don't get me wrong i will always be grateful for work he did to make SNP and Indy movement so popular and if we do get Independence i will always give a large part of credit o him. However right now some of his supporters are actually damaging the very cause he fought for perhaps not intentionally but doing so all the same.

[Benjamin_Nevis]

Messages between Murrell and Riddick and another sent by the liar Woman H which point to a conspiracy have been published. 

[emoji23]

[Baxter Parp]

Nicola Sturgeon coronavirus briefings: Ofcom rejects BBC bias claims

https://www.thenational.scot/news/19144544.nicola-sturgeon-coronavirus-briefings-ofcom-rejects-bbc-bias-claims/

 

[paolo2143]

Does anyone know what happens if the James Hamilton report does not come out before 25 March 2021 as the Scottish Parliament effectively dissolves that day for upcoming elections.

I know this year is a bit different and i think they can come back for some emergency such as Covid crisis but not sure about anything else.

I am just wondering if say it comes out at start of April and it's findings are open to controversy and argument such as she may have unintentionally breached Ministerial code if wee beady eyed Douglas and big Ruthie will try and call Parliament back for NC vote. Don't get me wrong i don't think Greens would back it if any breach was unintentional but chance for opposition parties to make big song & dance about it.

[Ned Nederlander]

5 hours ago, Baxter Parp said:

Nicola Sturgeon coronavirus briefings: Ofcom rejects BBC bias claims

https://www.thenational.scot/news/19144544.nicola-sturgeon-coronavirus-briefings-ofcom-rejects-bbc-bias-claims/

 

A briefing the BBC interupt to air the views of opposition MSPs.

[BFTD]

If the First Minister had been as hamfisted as the Prime Minister at these briefings, there would've been no complaints about the BBC broadcasting them.

[The Ghost of B A R P]

On 07/03/2021 at 20:42, O'Kelly Isley III said:

'Almost past caring'.  That will come as a surprise to anyone following this thread over the last week or so - obsessive is the word that springs to mind.  And therein may lie the flaw in your argument; not everyone shares that close level of interest and there comes a point at which the incessant attacks start to become counter productive.  Much is being made over a couple of poll results in the last couple of days suggesting a leveling off on the independence question; given that Sturgeon, Swinney and the good ship SNP have recently been under very heavy bombardment from the opposition parties and the media I think they can view these numbers as losing the top of the mizzen mast, all things considered.

 

 

'Almost past caring' about the ministerial code dimension... very much care about the bigger picture.

And 'obsessive' is just another cheap shot... only reason I've posted so often on this topic is the sheer volume of denial (and pish) I initially encountered on asking whether it had begun to filter through. The argument that people only care about what they know about is a curious one: of course they do... but what happens when what they don't currently know comes out?

Or: people who know stuff should just shut up so that people who don't know never find out?

On 08/03/2021 at 00:18, paolo2143 said:

Maybe her Political career will come to an end sometime in near future.

But i still totally disagree that her resigning just now in lead up to election would be a good thing. Maybe if election was 8 months away but not 8 weeks.

If she goes now i would bet my bottom dollar that the Tory media/press would exploit this far more than her staying and a leaderless SNP will get destroyed in elections. The reason they are trying to get rid of her is they fear her unlike any other potential SNP leader at moment.

Unless James Hamilton report finds that she deliberately lied to parliament and broke the code, she doesn't need to resign and nor should she.

Nicola Sturgeon is a great campaigner and debater and she will do well in these debates leading up to election. I think with her the SNP can still do really well in May's elections but without her they are in much deeper trouble.

I would prefer her to stay and then decide her future after 7 May.

You might be right; it is hard to see a 'good' outcome, as I said.

But I fully expect the Tory media/press to magically 'get to the bottom' of this during the election campaign itself.

I initially thought the opposition were at it when they said the elections shouldn't go ahead in May: I'd now happily accept postponement until September.

18 hours ago, paolo2143 said:

Even Alex Salmond said he had no direct evidence FM was involved in conspiracy.

There seems to be some trying to prtray Alex Salmond as a martyr in this affair.

Yes he was acquitted of 12 out of 13 charges and other not proven, but his own defence lawyer actually said during his trial that he was not there to defend some of his behaviour which was extremely inappropriate at times. There is also plenty of allegations from Non SNP sources that he was a bully while in office.

Don't get me wrong i will always be grateful for work he did to make SNP and Indy movement so popular and if we do get Independence i will always give a large part of credit o him. However right now some of his supporters are actually damaging the very cause he fought for perhaps not intentionally but doing so all the same.

This has been said before, but no one is saying definitively that Sturgeon is directly involved in the conspiracy; because we haven't seen any evidence to confirm it goes that far.

There is, though, evidence of incompetence (and illegality) at the heart of government and clear evidence of attempts to cover it up. Depending on what the suppressed evidence shows, Sturgeon might emerge as a driving force in the whole thing; or she might emerge as someone whose civil servants (and party) lost the plot. Either way, she is responsible.

That was my main problem with her committee appearance (along with the deflection and the continued smearing): it wasn't her fault; but it also wasn't anybody else's fault. That's the part that's just not credible.

If anybody can explain why Evans hasn't been sacked or had to resign, be my guest. Or if anybody can explain why Lloyd hasn't given evidence to the committee...

And I'm not sure what your definition of a 'martyr' is... but false prosecution for sexual offences and relentless smearing might legitimately provoke sympathy, regardless of his initial behaviour.

[DeeTillEhDeh]

This has been said before, but no one is saying definitively that Sturgeon is directly involved in the conspiracy; because we haven't seen any evidence to confirm it goes that far.
There is, though, evidence of incompetence (and illegality) at the heart of government and clear evidence of attempts to cover it up. Depending on what the suppressed evidence shows, Sturgeon might emerge as a driving force in the whole thing; or she might emerge as someone whose civil servants (and party) lost the plot. Either way, she is responsible.
That was my main problem with her committee appearance (along with the deflection and the continued smearing): it wasn't her fault; but it also wasn't anybody else's fault. That's the part that's just not credible.
If anybody can explain why Evans hasn't been sacked or had to resign, be my guest. Or if anybody can explain why Lloyd hasn't given evidence to the committee...
And I'm not sure what your definition of a 'martyr' is... but false prosecution for sexual offences and relentless smearing might legitimately provoke sympathy, regardless of his initial behaviour.

I get from that post that you think Evans is the main culprit?

If that is the case we actually may not be as far apart in our views as one might think.

Asking Salmond and Sturgeon questions is pointless - the person who does know what happened is the one that needs to be questioned.

[G51]

Give Scotland independence so it can finally vote out this embarrassment of a party.

[The Ghost of B A R P]

2 hours ago, DeeTillEhDeh said:

I get from that post that you think Evans is the main culprit?

If that is the case we actually may not be as far apart in our views as one might think.

Asking Salmond and Sturgeon questions is pointless - the person who does know what happened is the one that needs to be questioned.

There is no doubt at all that Evans sits at the heart of what went on. There's also no doubt, though, that Murrell and Lloyd have behaved in a way that won't bear scrutiny if all the evidence is on the table.

The questions for Sturgeon are, in the first case: why is Evans still there? In the second, had Murrell and Lloyd gone completely tonto, or were they acting with Sturgeon's implicit or explicit authority?

So yes, sorta... but the reason there's not much point in asking Sturgeon any more questions is that she's made it clear she's not going to give straight answers (either because she's protecting herself or protecting others).

Doesn't mean there aren't big questions the person with ultimate responsibility would be answering in normal circumstances. These are clearly, whatever anybody thinks, not normal circumstances...

Edited to add, right on cue: if it turns out to be true that Evans and Sturgeon met Roddy Dunlop on 13 November and no minute or note of the meeting was taken, both should just save us all a lot of trouble and resign immediately. Taking the piss, either way.

Edited March 9, 2021 by The Ghost of B A R P

[MP_MFC]

Give Scotland independence so it can finally vote out this embarrassment of a party.

Musson holding on to a story again for a good week or so before releasing it.

He's an absolute hack.

[DrewDon]

Craig Levein has called on her to resign. Difficult to see how she comes back from this. 

[John Lambies Doos]

Craig Levein has called on her to resign. Difficult to see how she comes back from this. 

Classy