Yoda8 Posted August 24, 2017 Share Posted August 24, 2017 4 hours ago, Chapelhall chap said: The Rovers can now concentrate on league business just like us. I have disliked the Challenge Cup since they made it open to clubs outside Scotland so it is no great loss when we inevitably go out early to a better team! Don't understand this attitudes CC, although we had a trip in 90's lower league teams don't get to follow their clubs out with Scotland. Surely going to Ireland or Wales would be a good jolly for fans? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Poet of the Macabre Posted August 25, 2017 Share Posted August 25, 2017 If the SPFL really wanted to avoid two non-Scottish sides meeting in a Scottish competition then it might have been an idea to not include non-Scottish sides tbh. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fae_the_'briggs Posted August 25, 2017 Share Posted August 25, 2017 8 hours ago, Yoda8 said: Don't understand this attitudes CC, although we had a trip in 90's lower league teams don't get to follow their clubs out with Scotland. Surely going to Ireland or Wales would be a good jolly for fans? There seems to be more emphasis on how having teams from Ireland and Wales competing would be a great away day for the fans rather than if their inclusion was good or bad for the competition and Scottish Clubs. I personally don't think their inclusion, or the Colts for that matter, has added anything to the competition or really raised it's profile any. It should either go back to it's original form or get scrapped. 9 hours ago, Skyline Drifter said: No concerns. Linfield sold about 500 tickets in advance and we sold another 500 or so on the day to Linfield fans and a couple of buses of Rangers fans who turned up to pay tribute to Ryan Baird, the Rangers / Linfield fan killed on the bus near Cumnock the week before. There were about 1000 away fans there but we can accommodate up to 3000 so it was no big deal. No problems on the day other than 3 Linfield fans using photocopied tickets and our team's inability on the day to force the ball past Roy Carroll until extra time! Leaving aside your selective amnesia about the pyrotechnics being let off and the songs being sung in the away end at Palmerston on that day (I may be wrong but were there not people ejected), it probably went as well as could be expected. A game in Coatbridge would be quite a different thing from Dumfries, given the possible difficulty in segregation at Cliftonhill and other non-football related issues. I would say Albion Rovers are well out of it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skyline Drifter Posted August 25, 2017 Share Posted August 25, 2017 16 minutes ago, Fae_the_'briggs said: Leaving aside your selective amnesia about the pyrotechnics being let off and the songs being sung in the away end at Palmerston on that day (I may be wrong but were there not people ejected), it probably went as well as could be expected. A game in Coatbridge would be quite a different thing from Dumfries, given the possible difficulty in segregation at Cliftonhill and other non-football related issues. I would say Albion Rovers are well out of it. That's not selective amnesia. Presuming you are correct it's actual amnesia. Were there pyrotechnics at the Linfield game? I don't remember any. I was asked a week or two back when the last time we saw any pyro at Palmerston was and I said I thought it was Hibs fans season before last (and our own fans at the start of the same season). I genuinely don't recall any pyro at the Linfield game. I'm not aware of anyone being ejected either, though I think 2 or 3 were refused admission for being too drunk. That happens nearly every week though, Linfield was no different. Songs? Yes, fair comment. I forgot about that. Obviously a game in Coatbridge would be different but he asked how it was dealt with at Palmerston. I made the point we could comfortably cope with the numbers involved. I accept it would be a bigger issue for Rovers. Not sure what their capacity is now. They have a terrace behind a goal they can use when required now don't they? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fae_the_'briggs Posted August 25, 2017 Share Posted August 25, 2017 57 minutes ago, Skyline Drifter said: That's not selective amnesia. Presuming you are correct it's actual amnesia. Were there pyrotechnics at the Linfield game? I don't remember any. I was asked a week or two back when the last time we saw any pyro at Palmerston was and I said I thought it was Hibs fans season before last (and our own fans at the start of the same season). I genuinely don't recall any pyro at the Linfield game. I'm not aware of anyone being ejected either, though I think 2 or 3 were refused admission for being too drunk. That happens nearly every week though, Linfield was no different. Songs? Yes, fair comment. I forgot about that. Obviously a game in Coatbridge would be different but he asked how it was dealt with at Palmerston. I made the point we could comfortably cope with the numbers involved. I accept it would be a bigger issue for Rovers. Not sure what their capacity is now. They have a terrace behind a goal they can use when required now don't they? I agree that given the numbers/problems ratio it went ok. Having rangers in the division for a couple of seasons probably prepared fans of what to expect. I was more commenting on the matchday in general rather than just the logistical side of things. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doonhamer doon south Posted August 25, 2017 Share Posted August 25, 2017 1 hour ago, Fae_the_'briggs said: There seems to be more emphasis on how having teams from Ireland and Wales competing would be a great away day for the fans rather than if their inclusion was good or bad for the competition and Scottish Clubs. I personally don't think their inclusion, or the Colts for that matter, has added anything to the competition or really raised it's profile any. It should either go back to it's original form or get scrapped. Leaving aside your selective amnesia about the pyrotechnics being let off and the songs being sung in the away end at Palmerston on that day (I may be wrong but were there not people ejected), it probably went as well as could be expected. A game in Coatbridge would be quite a different thing from Dumfries, given the possible difficulty in segregation at Cliftonhill and other non-football related issues. I would say Albion Rovers are well out of it. I only really take issue with the comment about how the Welsh and Irish teams have not added anything to the competition. Linfield were able to shut us out for 90 minutes and they filled the away end something teams rarely do when visiting Dumfries. They added atmosphere (good or bad there was still an atmosphere). Im glad its expanded and i personally would go further and invite more "outside teams". I would like to see maybe Faroe teams or Northern English teams like Gateshead be invited in. I do however agree that the colts take away from the competition and would like to see them withdrawn. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skyline Drifter Posted August 25, 2017 Share Posted August 25, 2017 5 minutes ago, Doonhamer doon south said: I only really take issue with the comment about how the Welsh and Irish teams have not added anything to the competition. Linfield were able to shut us out for 90 minutes and they filled the away end something teams rarely do when visiting Dumfries. They added atmosphere (good or bad there was still an atmosphere). Im glad its expanded and i personally would go further and invite more "outside teams". I would like to see maybe Faroe teams or Northern English teams like Gateshead be invited in. I do however agree that the colts take away from the competition and would like to see them withdrawn. Couldn't disagree more really. I have no issue with the Colts being in it but see the foreign teams as a needless gimmick. And having a Faroes team would be truly daft. Having looked briefly at transport to the Faroes in case we were drawn there in the UEFA Cup in 2009, unless things have changed significantly, travel would be a nightmare. However, I accept it's probably a gimmick keeping the tournament commercially viable at the moment so I'd rather cope with it than have no tournament. No issue with the quality of the foreign sides (though the fact Linfield shut us out for 90 mins owed more to an outstanding performance from Roy Carroll and some wasteful finishing than to any great defence from them). TNS made the last 4 last season, Linfield are decent and the Republic sides are likely to be better. I think Linfield filling an away end at Dumfries was fairly unique. I don't think there will be much crowd from any other foreign side and probably not any particularly big crowd from them if playing away from Dumfries / Stranraer / Ayrshire. The ease of travel for them to nip over from Belfast helped, plus the novelty of it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doonhamer doon south Posted August 25, 2017 Share Posted August 25, 2017 2 minutes ago, Skyline Drifter said: Couldn't disagree more really. I have no issue with the Colts being in it but see the foreign teams as a needless gimmick. And having a Faroes team would be truly daft. Having looked briefly at transport to the Faroes in case we were drawn there in the UEFA Cup in 2009, unless things have changed significantly, travel would be a nightmare. However, I accept it's probably a gimmick keeping the tournament commercially viable at the moment so I'd rather cope with it than have no tournament. No issue with the quality of the foreign sides (though the fact Linfield shut us out for 90 mins owed more to an outstanding performance from Roy Carroll and some wasteful finishing than to any great defence from them). TNS made the last 4 last season, Linfield are decent and the Republic sides are likely to be better. I think Linfield filling an away end at Dumfries was fairly unique. I don't think there will be much crowd from any other foreign side and probably not any particularly big crowd from them if playing away from Dumfries / Stranraer / Ayrshire. The ease of travel for them to nip over from Belfast helped, plus the novelty of it. And that is where you hit the nail on the head SD. The novelty of it. The Faroes is a bit of a stretch of course it is and in my previous post i was going to put Jersey or Guernsey to be added. But how often would a fan of each club draw one one of these sides away. Once every other season most likely. So it is absolutely down to the novelty of travelling somewhere new with your club. If nothing else its raised the profile of the competion just because of the controvesy of the teams included. The colts is a poor idea. how is 1 or 2 games against lower league opposition meant to bring the youngsters on enough to force their way into senior first team. its not. The colt idea would be better off where players are pooled into large district sides or someone on the other thread mentioned a north/south team. At least the best youngsters would be put together to give a better account of themselves and give them a better ladder to climb towards regular first team football. Even then though that's just like trying to polish a shite. still a shite. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chapelhall chap Posted August 25, 2017 Share Posted August 25, 2017 12 hours ago, Yoda8 said: Don't understand this attitudes CC, although we had a trip in 90's lower league teams don't get to follow their clubs out with Scotland. Surely going to Ireland or Wales would be a good jolly for fans? I get your point about travelling experience outside Scotland but I don't see it as a "Scottish" cup competition. Do you think that we should open up the other Cup competition to this format? I go to loads of away games and the number of our fans who travel( and other fans who come to Airdrie) has declined over the years, and although that might be boredom at the same places twice a season, and how guff we have been mainly, I don't see many wanting to go to Wales etc. If it is so good why not widen it to Northern conference as well? I also don't like the Colts idea full stop. All a matter of opinion of course. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peternapper Posted August 25, 2017 Share Posted August 25, 2017 Quote The introduction of the Colts teams is nothing to do with making them better players by playing in this, it is just a foot in the door to get them accepted into the league system which eventually would possibly mean proper clubs finding it harder to break into the league & some existing sides dropping out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vodka Vic Posted August 25, 2017 Share Posted August 25, 2017 The issue with Albion Rovers v Linfield would be the match being hijacked by morons (from both sides) to fight their proxy war. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yoda8 Posted August 25, 2017 Share Posted August 25, 2017 2 hours ago, Chapelhall chap said: I get your point about travelling experience outside Scotland but I don't see it as a "Scottish" cup competition. Do you think that we should open up the other Cup competition to this format? I go to loads of away games and the number of our fans who travel( and other fans who come to Airdrie) has declined over the years, and although that might be boredom at the same places twice a season, and how guff we have been mainly, I don't see many wanting to go to Wales etc. If it is so good why not widen it to Northern conference as well? I also don't like the Colts idea full stop. All a matter of opinion of course. The colts is a different issue for me but I think if Airdrie had a nice draw to somewhere in Ireland it would be a good trip for the fans to enjoy. Plus the club get extra prize & gate money which is an even bigger plus. sure the SFA give an amount to cover expenses for clubs going out with country Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chapelhall chap Posted August 25, 2017 Share Posted August 25, 2017 12 minutes ago, Yoda8 said: The colts is a different issue for me but I think if Airdrie had a nice draw to somewhere in Ireland it would be a good trip for the fans to enjoy. Plus the club get extra prize & gate money which is an even bigger plus. sure the SFA give an amount to cover expenses for clubs going out with country Fair enough point but from the draws in the last few seasons we rarely get beyond Round 2. Have been to the Republic once but never to NI. Once tried to see us in Derby but the flood intervened during the Texaco Cup-glory days otherwise! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clayhole Blue Posted August 25, 2017 Share Posted August 25, 2017 33 minutes ago, Yoda8 said: The colts is a different issue for me but I think if Airdrie had a nice draw to somewhere in Ireland it would be a good trip for the fans to enjoy. Plus the club get extra prize & gate money which is an even bigger plus. sure the SFA give an amount to cover expenses for clubs going out with country Think clubs get £5K for travelling outwith Scotland. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DiegoDiego Posted August 25, 2017 Share Posted August 25, 2017 5 hours ago, Skyline Drifter said: Having looked briefly at transport to the Faroes in case we were drawn there in the UEFA Cup in 2009, unless things have changed significantly, travel would be a nightmare. Direct flights from Edinburgh these days. Out on the Thursday, back on the Sunday. Admittedly, I'm not sure how many seats would be available, but still. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skyline Drifter Posted August 25, 2017 Share Posted August 25, 2017 2 minutes ago, DiegoDiego said: Direct flights from Edinburgh these days. Out on the Thursday, back on the Sunday. Admittedly, I'm not sure how many seats would be available, but still. So that's three night's accommodation plus a fairly lengthy flight, even presuming you could get enough seats for team and supporters. In practice you'd almost certainly need charters. Either way considerably more than the £5k travel subsidy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Poet of the Macabre Posted August 25, 2017 Share Posted August 25, 2017 How much would an average club lose roughly if this competition was just scrapped? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NorthBank Posted August 26, 2017 Share Posted August 26, 2017 On 24/08/2017 at 13:25, WeAreElgin said: That seems unnecessarily harsh, is there a precedent for teams being thrown out and fined for an unused sub? St Mirren were once fined a whopping £25K for only having 1 U21 players on the subs bench when the rule at the time was 2 U21s (we did have two but one was a keeper who was exempt from the U21 count) in a Cup game against Spartans. This was reduced to a measly £12.5K on appeal - and even that was a fucking ridiculous decision. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Audaces Fortuna Juvat Posted August 26, 2017 Share Posted August 26, 2017 19 hours ago, Skyline Drifter said: So that's three night's accommodation plus a fairly lengthy flight, even presuming you could get enough seats for team and supporters. In practice you'd almost certainly need charters. Either way considerably more than the £5k travel subsidy. Did this a few weeks back and it is well worth a visit. The flight is ninety minutes maximum and accommodation was very reasonable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cowdenbeath Posted August 26, 2017 Share Posted August 26, 2017 19 hours ago, Poet of the Macabre said: How much would an average club lose roughly if this competition was just scrapped? You get £3700 in prize money for losing in the 1st round plus what ever you made from the gate. Prize money by round is 1st £3700 2nd £5400 3rd £7500 QF £10000 SF £12500 Runner Up £15000 Winner £20000 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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