archieb Posted May 26, 2017 Share Posted May 26, 2017 1 hour ago, peasy23 said: 1. But what if he is the club rep? 2. From what I hear there are a few big clubs who will most likely vote against increasing the leagues, simply because there is no guarantee that the number of cup ties will reduce. Looks like we're stuck with discussing reorganisation on THIS thread now instead of the existing one. That's P&B for you!! 1. If he's the club rep he would be more clued up about the proposals AND know what way his club will mandate him to vote, which he clearly doesn't. 2. That would be very disappointing AND short-sighted of them if it's true. Reorganising cup competitions to fit in with bigger league divisions will be a very complex process because of the wide range of options there will be. Including THAT with league reorganisation would have made the proposal far too unwieldy and contentious. Much better to keep the reorganisation motion as simple as possible, then use the 12 months before implementation to consult and come up with a consensus view on appropriate new formats etc for cup competitions which can be rubber-stamped at the 2018 AGM in time for the following season. The only other option is a continuation of what we already have (which could possibly lead to a 9-club Ayrshire division and a 17-club Central first in 2018-19) - madness!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
archieb Posted May 26, 2017 Share Posted May 26, 2017 53 minutes ago, LeedsPhil said: So SF on Saturday 3rd could be Benburb v Yoker. New Tinto Park is already booked for Central Scottish Amateur league fixture, 2pm KO. And Kilsyth's park is already booked Wednesday, Thursday and Friday for 2 x cup semis and a final in the Central Scottish Amateur League. No doubt the Junior fixtures would take priority, but an example of how leaving it until the last minute to set fixtures also messes other folks around. Another argument in favour of proper advance fixture planning. VOTE FOR THE MOTION AT THE WEST AGM!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bankies Alive Posted May 26, 2017 Share Posted May 26, 2017 2 hours ago, peasy23 said: But what if he is the club rep? From what I hear there are a few big clubs who will most likely vote against increasing the leagues, simply because there is no guarantee that the number of cup ties will reduce. District cups will get binned before the 16 team leagues start Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peasy23 Posted May 26, 2017 Share Posted May 26, 2017 District cups will get binned before the 16 team leagues start If the league proposals are passed (which I sincerely hope they are btw) then I have no doubt there will be discussions/proposals regarding the district cups, but as it stands there is no guarantee that the cups will change. Whether we like it or not then some clubs will feel that they don't need extra league games and are happy with the way things are. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
archieb Posted May 26, 2017 Share Posted May 26, 2017 40 minutes ago, peasy23 said: If the league proposals are passed (which I sincerely hope they are btw) then I have no doubt there will be discussions/proposals regarding the district cups, but as it stands there is no guarantee that the cups will change. Whether we like it or not then some clubs will feel that they don't need extra league games and are happy with the way things are. That's democracy for you! Maybe the Juniors aren't an offshoot of North Korea after all! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HibeeJibee Posted May 26, 2017 Share Posted May 26, 2017 I see that Arthurlie + Clydebank have arranged a friendly for Saturday 5th August. Does this mean the sectional cups will not even be getting underway until Saturday 12th August for 2017-18? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Markka Posted May 26, 2017 Share Posted May 26, 2017 I see that Arthurlie + Clydebank have arranged a friendly for Saturday 5th August. Does this mean the sectional cups will not even be getting underway until Saturday 12th August for 2017-18? Perhaps on Mon 7th August? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peasy23 Posted May 26, 2017 Share Posted May 26, 2017 I see that Arthurlie + Clydebank have arranged a friendly for Saturday 5th August. Does this mean the sectional cups will not even be getting underway until Saturday 12th August for 2017-18? Started on the 6th August this season, can't see it being later tbh. Definitely the Junior sides? Unusual for teams in the same division to play a friendly against each other. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HibeeJibee Posted May 26, 2017 Share Posted May 26, 2017 I'd spotted it on the online listing of Scottish club friendlies. Went to corroborate it from Arthurlie's twitter and while the banner won't scroll on my device all the other friendlies tally-up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
archieb Posted May 26, 2017 Share Posted May 26, 2017 Friendly games can start from the 1st Saturday in July now, can't they? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
classof2010 Posted May 26, 2017 Share Posted May 26, 2017 Why do we need to change the top league to 16 you have never once said why it has to change. all you have done is get on your high horse when someone dares to say they are happy with a 12 team league. I feel a lot of top teams will vote for status quo as there is no concrete plans for the Cups, just that it will be discussed for a full year after. at the most I'd go for 14 team top league it's my opinion not once have I tried to ridicule you. but because I don't agree with you over this you have resorted to bad mouthing me Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
archieb Posted May 26, 2017 Share Posted May 26, 2017 56 minutes ago, classof2010 said: Why do we need to change the top league to 16 you have never once said why it has to change. all you have done is get on your high horse when someone dares to say they are happy with a 12 team league. I feel a lot of top teams will vote for status quo as there is no concrete plans for the Cups, just that it will be discussed for a full year after. at the most I'd go for 14 team top league it's my opinion not once have I tried to ridicule you. but because I don't agree with you over this you have resorted to bad mouthing me You don't seem to understand that there are procedures to go through in order to create the opportunity for any sort of change in leagues, cups etc. These proposals have been developed over several months now, with involvement and contributions from representatives of numerous clubs in all 5 existing divisions and with a good geographic spread within the region. They have been put out for consultation to all 64 clubs on two occasions and every single piece of feedback has been taken into account and every club that responded to the consultation was invited to take part in the next stage of developing the proposals. There was then a deadline by which AGM motions had to be finalised and submitted, a meeting of the West Region clubs at which those motions were discussed, and an opportunity for amendments to be composed and submitted. So the time for anyone to have their say about the thrust and detailed content of these proposals has passed. If you weren't engaged in the consultation for whatever reason then I'm sorry but you've missed that boat and your suggestions on this thread cannot affect the options that will be available for delegates to vote on at the AGM. Any amendments already submitted to each motion will be voted on first, then it's down to either the substantive motion or the status quo. If reorganisation is rejected, it cannot be proposed again until 2 years later. So I apologize for being dismissive, feel free to keep saying what your preferred options would be (preferably on the reconstruction thread rather than here!!) but then put them in cold storage until 2019 at least! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
archieb Posted May 26, 2017 Share Posted May 26, 2017 1 hour ago, classof2010 said: Why do we need to change the top league to 16 you have never once said why it has to change. To answer this specific question, the reason clubs are proposing or supporting this is because they NEED more guaranteed match day income to balance their books. Income from cup competitions is not guaranteed, that from league matches is much moreso. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
classof2010 Posted May 26, 2017 Share Posted May 26, 2017 I'm only stating an opinion as I've said many times you seem to very knowledgeable on the subject so I would take it your a commitee man or on very good terms with one as I said it is my opinion that more fixtures is not good for our game Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
classof2010 Posted May 26, 2017 Share Posted May 26, 2017 To answer this specific question, the reason clubs are proposing or supporting this is because they NEED more guaranteed match day income to balance their books. Income from cup competitions is not guaranteed, that from league matches is much moreso. Why not get rid of all cups except scottish and West then as the other 3 just bung up the start and end of season Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wile E Coyote Posted May 26, 2017 Share Posted May 26, 2017 Alienating the top clubs by shoehorning in more games is a surefire way to ensure the Lowland League becomes stronger very quickly Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
glensmad Posted May 26, 2017 Share Posted May 26, 2017 Why not get rid of all cups except scottish and West then as the other 3 just bung up the start and end of season I'm not sure if you're actually reading archieb's posts properly, because he has explained the answer to that several times now. It may well be that, if the reconstruction proposal is voted through, that a proposal is raised during next season to scrap the district cups to coincide with the start of the new league structure. But such a proposal could not be voted on until the 2018 AGM, as that proposal has not been raised for this year's meeting. What archieb says makes perfect sense to me, if the clubs vote to change the leagues then we have a year to discuss the fine details and raise further proposals to coincide with the start of the new structure, e.g. the scrapping of cup competitions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
classof2010 Posted May 26, 2017 Share Posted May 26, 2017 I'm not sure if you're actually reading archieb's posts properly, because he has explained the answer to that several times now. It may well be that, if the reconstruction proposal is voted through, that a proposal is raised during next season to scrap the district cups to coincide with the start of the new league structure. But such a proposal could not be voted on until the 2018 AGM, as that proposal has not been raised for this year's meeting. What archieb says makes perfect sense to me, if the clubs vote to change the leagues then we have a year to discuss the fine details and raise further proposals to coincide with the start of the new structure, e.g. the scrapping of cup competitions. I read what he said perfectly well what I'm saying could it not all be dealt with in 1 go who is to say they will defo scrap the Cups there is to be a discussion on it nowhere has it said they will be scrapped my biggest fear is the cvottish cup dates in the worst of the weather and they still getting precidence. If we had reconstruction and cups rejig at same time then I'm sure you wud get a clear win for 16 team leagues Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
archieb Posted May 26, 2017 Share Posted May 26, 2017 4 minutes ago, classof2010 said: I read what he said perfectly well what I'm saying could it not all be dealt with in 1 go who is to say they will defo scrap the Cups there is to be a discussion on it nowhere has it said they will be scrapped my biggest fear is the cvottish cup dates in the worst of the weather and they still getting precidence. If we had reconstruction and cups rejig at same time then I'm sure you wud get a clear win for 16 team leagues You're pissing in the wind. It AIN'T going to happen. It CAN'T happen. Give it a rest FFS and let's debate something meaningful! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
classof2010 Posted May 26, 2017 Share Posted May 26, 2017 You're pissing in the wind. It AIN'T going to happen. It CAN'T happen. Give it a rest FFS and let's debate something meaningful! I'm giving an opinion your ridiculing it you seem to be in the know so surely you have inside knowledge into the vote is it just needs 33 votes to pass or is a certain percentage for change Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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