Junior football, what is the future?

[db11]

13 minutes ago, Vollyman said:

There are 13 clubs in the East of Scotland league and around 60 in the East Region Juniors.The Juniors have an established league format,instead of clubs leaving the Juniors the East of Scotland league could be added to the junior format and all junior clubs offered senior status.Promotion from the Super league to the lowland league should take place and a decision as to which tier the present East of Scotland league should take. It seems to me that at present the dog is wagging the tail

 

 

http://www.pieandbovril.com/forum/applications/tapatalk/index.php?/topic/255691-Bonnyrigg-Rose-should-they-stay-or-should-they-go%2E%2E%2E/page__view__findpost__p__12024891

 

Problem is that juniors are looking to join the seniors pyramid, not the other way round.

[Inanimate Carbon Rod]

There are 13 clubs in the East of Scotland league and around 60 in the East Region Juniors.The Juniors have an established league format,instead of clubs leaving the Juniors the East of Scotland league could be added to the junior format and all junior clubs offered senior status.Promotion from the Super league to the lowland league should take place and a decision as to which tier the present East of Scotland league should take. It seems to me that at present the dog is wagging the tail
 
 
http://www.pieandbovril.com/forum/applications/tapatalk/index.php?/topic/255691-Bonnyrigg-Rose-should-they-stay-or-should-they-go%2E%2E%2E/page__view__findpost__p__12024891
 

Why should the east of scotland league be punished and forced into joining a set up with no sponsor no fixture list and an undercurrent of incompetence at all levels?
If ever there was a merger the people in charge of the EOSL who actually run their set up impressively should be in charge. Putting the juniors in charge of the senior lower league pyramid would be like putting a vegan in charge of a slaughterhouse.

[newcastle broon]

44 minutes ago, cmontheloknow said:

I wrote to Gordon Smith years ago outlining reasons why Division 4 N/S (as it was then called) was flawed, and he did respond with his reasons countering mine. That email correspondence is lost to time but it was well towards the start of this decade, if not before. I honestly cannot remember when. Change has been on the cards and the SJFA have refused to play ball all the way along. 

 

50 minutes ago, Arthurlie1981 said:

 

Agree with a lot of what you have said here. I feel that all west junior clubs (especially) have cast as villains here. I know for a fact that Arthurlie responded positively to all the questionnaires regarding the pyramid. I also believe 5/6 others did likewise. We asked for additional information to take to our membership before making a final decision on this, but didn’t receive any. When I contacted that SFA & SJFA I wasn’t given the information required and left with the distinct feeling that it had already had been decided that it would mainly be made up by EOSL clubs.

 

Some junior clubs have to stop living in the past. Change can be positive, you only have to look at the decline in crowds across many clubs (my own being a prime example) to see that change is needed. Times have changed and it’s time for the SJFA and (sadly) a large amount of junior clubs to change with it.

 

We need a WoSL to achieve parity and allow for a fully functional pyramid to be achieved.

 

Also some people from both sides of the argument should have a good look at themselves and stop acting like school children.

 

1 hour ago, Hillonearth said:

I have to admit from a club level - certainly in the West - that's the way it appeared on the ground. I've said as much on here myself.

Whether the SJFA was attending the meetings and failing to communicate developments to the clubs I don't know, but there certainly was some kind of disconnect somewhere along the line.

The first I was aware of the proposals was maybe mid-late April of the season before the LL started when our club secretary showed me the questionnaire that had been sent round. Even then from memory it was couched in language that sounded odd - loads of "in principle" and so on.

At any rate, nobody was going to make a precipitate decision in that sort of timeframe. Whether that was the fault of the SJFA or the movers and shakers of the LL, I'm now not as sure as I previously was, but either way it was like getting an invite to a party on the other side of the city that starts in half an hour - you're not going to bother...

3 good decent responses from 3 fans of different teams after my post. 

Interesting there seems to have been some communication along the line. 

 

[Vollyman]

Why should the east of scotland league be punished and forced into joining a set up with no sponsor no fixture list and an undercurrent of incompetence at all levels?
If ever there was a merger the people in charge of the EOSL who actually run their set up impressively should be in charge. Putting the juniors in charge of the senior lower league pyramid would be like putting a vegan in charge of a slaughterhouse.

No doubt the people who run the EOSL do a good job running a league of 13 clubs which is less formidable task than that of the SJFA who manage 3 regions and around 160 clubs. The only reason that clubs are leaving Junior football is that they are being told by the SFA that they will have to join the EOSL if they wish to enter the pyramid situation.The clubs who have decided to join The EOSL are doing so now because they are ambitious and realise they can gain quick promotion to higher leagues .because of the poor standard of football in the EOSL. Two clubs have left the EOSL and joined the junior leagues in recent years which indicates that all is not rosy. The SFA is making a big mistake allocating tier 6 to The EOSL instead of The Junior SuperLeague which has higher standards

[Robert James]

32 minutes ago, Vollyman said:

There are 13 clubs in the East of Scotland league and around 60 in the East Region Juniors.The Juniors have an established league format,instead of clubs leaving the Juniors the East of Scotland league could be added to the junior format and all junior clubs offered senior status.Promotion from the Super league to the lowland league should take place and a decision as to which tier the present East of Scotland league should take. It seems to me that at present the dog is wagging the tail

 

 

http://www.pieandbovril.com/forum/applications/tapatalk/index.php?/topic/255691-Bonnyrigg-Rose-should-they-stay-or-should-they-go%2E%2E%2E/page__view__findpost__p__12024891

 

The PAST is the PAST and can't be changed, and as a reminder, these are the key facts to date:

 

* The SFA is the governing football body for Scotland, recognised by UEFA within the overall FIFA framework

*  The SFA  created a pyramid, as encouraged to do so by the international authorities

*  Scottish non league clubs were invited to apply for membership to the new Lowland League, and a number of  Junior clubs requested/received the SFA's  'prospectus'

* For whatever reason, no Junior clubs applied to join

* A small number of 'senior' non league clubs did apply, meaning that a new 'feeder' league could be formed in the south,  having equal status with the HFL

* The SJFA did not wish to become part of the pyramid

* The Lowland League has subsequently grown to 16 clubs, all of whom are members of the Scottish Football Association

* The SFA, like almost any type of sporting club/association, sets its own rules, and is entitled to change them, if its membership agrees/votes to do so

* Some Junior clubs now want to follow Kelty Hearts and seek membership  of the existing East 'feeder' league in 2018/19

* The SJFC has conducted a questionnaire/ballot of West junior clubs, resulting in a majority  wanting to join the pyramid, whilst a minority don't.

 

So we are where we are. However looking to the FUTURE, the situation, as I understand it, is as follows :

* the SFA wants to form a West of Scotland 'feeder' league, ideally from 2019/20, and has already held an initial consultative meeting with the SJFA and the other affiliated Leagues

* the SFA will not agree that the West league will be placed at Tier 5 

* consultation with the SoSL clubs will be required to ascertain if any intend to seek membership of the proposed WoSL (possibly Threave, but few others will be interested) 

* if existing SoSL clubs do not wish to join the WoSL, the SoSL will probably be placed at Tier 7, albeit it as a separate/independent league within the West region 

* the SFA already has an East 'feeder' (the EoSL), and will not agree to form two separate leagues covering the same region

* the SFA will welcome clubs in the  East and West who wish the join the pyramid and become members of the SFA

* the SFA  will extend its current (excellent) benefits to new member clubs 

* the SFA will probably allow dual SJFA/SFA membership, if current Junior clubs wish to do so

* the EoSL intends to consult with new members about the Tier 6 divisional arrangements in time for the 2018/19 season, if the total number of clubs exceeds 16

* future additional clubs in the East and West 'feeder' leagues, will be by application annually

* the SFA/WoSL may seek to have a 2 divisional structure in place for 2019/20, subject to consultation with interested clubs

* the SJFA  will retain full responsibility for the junior clubs that do not wish to participate in the pyramid 

* further changes should not be introduced before 2020/21, to enable the above to be completed.  

 

If ALL parties agree the above as the framework, it shouldn't be too difficult to reach completion ahead of the 2019/20 season.  

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Inanimate Carbon Rod]

No doubt the people who run the EOSL do a good job running a league of 13 clubs which is less formidable task than that of the SJFA who manage 3 regions and around 160 clubs. The only reason that clubs are leaving Junior football is that they are being told by the SFA that they will have to join the EOSL if they wish to enter the pyramid situation.The clubs who have decided to join The EOSL are doing so now because they are ambitious and realise they can gain quick promotion to higher leagues .because of the poor standard of football in the EOSL. Two clubs have left the EOSL and joined the junior leagues in recent years which indicates that all is not rosy. The SFA is making a big mistake allocating tier 6 to The EOSL instead of The Junior SuperLeague which has higher standards

You could have just saved your time typing all that and posted a picture of you putting your fingers in your ears and closing your eyes instead.

[cmontheloknow]

2 hours ago, Robert James said:

The PAST is the PAST and can't be changed, and as a reminder, these are the key facts to date:

(snip)

* The SJFC has conducted a questionnaire/ballot of West junior clubs, resulting in a majority  wanting to join the pyramid, whilst a minority don't.

(snip)

 

 

 

The SJFA questionnaire was issued to the entire membership.

[bravehearts dad]

I see Arniston have called an EGM for Wednesday 28th. Are they also looking to leave the juniors and apply to the pyramid?

[LongTimeLurker]

...suspect the EGM won't be because they suddenly want to change their name to Celtic. Given who is already known to be moving so far, them, Tranent, Newtongrange Star and Penicuik are likely candidates for the next set of dominoes to fall. This post from a Lithgae Rose supporter could be some kind of windup given what he regularly gets up to on the Bo'ness United thread but was still quite intriguing:

8 hours ago, Auld Heid said:

 

Who's to say we haven't already applied?

 

Not every club moving has advertised it on P&B. But instead have quietly went about things and improved their ground in preparation for a move.

 

31st of March should be interesting.

 

HTG

 

[Inanimate Carbon Rod]

The PAST is the PAST and can't be changed, and as a reminder, these are the key facts to date:
 
* The SFA is the governing football body for Scotland, recognised by UEFA within the overall FIFA framework
*  The SFA  created a pyramid, as encouraged to do so by the international authorities
*  Scottish non league clubs were invited to apply for membership to the new Lowland League, and a number of  Junior clubs requested/received the SFA's  'prospectus'
* For whatever reason, no Junior clubs applied to join
* A small number of 'senior' non league clubs did apply, meaning that a new 'feeder' league could be formed in the south,  having equal status with the HFL
* The SJFA did not wish to become part of the pyramid
* The Lowland League has subsequently grown to 16 clubs, all of whom are members of the Scottish Football Association
* The SFA, like almost any type of sporting club/association, sets its own rules, and is entitled to change them, if its membership agrees/votes to do so
* Some Junior clubs now want to follow Kelty Hearts and seek membership  of the existing East 'feeder' league in 2018/19
* The SJFC has conducted a questionnaire/ballot of West junior clubs, resulting in a majority  wanting to join the pyramid, whilst a minority don't.
 
So we are where we are. However looking to the FUTURE, the situation, as I understand it, is as follows :
* the SFA wants to form a West of Scotland 'feeder' league, ideally from 2019/20, and has already held an initial consultative meeting with the SJFA and the other affiliated Leagues
* the SFA/WoSL may seek to have a 2 divisional structure in place for 2019/20, subject to consultation with interested clubs

 

I think this will be the likely outcome. Ive heard rumours of a west league from a few of the different grounds ive visited recently. I wouldn’t be surprised if Clydebanks meeting on monday or whenever it is saw them stay junior for another year to start a wosfl the next season. I think they may have missed the boat but on the whole creation of a west senior league is a positive. It would allow those junior clubs who want to join the pyramid to do so and those who dont to stay as they are.

[cmontheloknow]

1 hour ago, Inanimate Carbon Rod said:

I think this will be the likely outcome. Ive heard rumours of a west league from a few of the different grounds ive visited recently. I wouldn’t be surprised if Clydebanks meeting on monday or whenever it is saw them stay junior for another year to start a wosfl the next season. I think they may have missed the boat but on the whole creation of a west senior league is a positive. It would allow those junior clubs who want to join the pyramid to do so and those who dont to stay as they are.

It's time to bring back the Best Team In Auchinleck Cup too!

[Robert James]

5 hours ago, cmontheloknow said:

The SJFA questionnaire was issued to the entire membership.

Did the questionnaire include the North Juniors as well ? They have rarely, if at all,  been referred to on this P&B thread (?)

[cmontheloknow]

6 minutes ago, Robert James said:

Did the questionnaire include the North Juniors as well ? They have rarely, if at all,  been referred to on this P&B thread (?)

To the best of my knowledge, yes.

[FairWeatherFan]

1 hour ago, Inanimate Carbon Rod said:

I think this will be the likely outcome. Ive heard rumours of a west league from a few of the different grounds ive visited recently. I wouldn’t be surprised if Clydebanks meeting on monday or whenever it is saw them stay junior for another year to start a wosfl the next season. I think they may have missed the boat but on the whole creation of a west senior league is a positive. It would allow those junior clubs who want to join the pyramid to do so and those who dont to stay as they are.

With Clydebank already having voted to go Senior again and only a single proposal presented on Sunday. It would seem a little strange for the proposal to be wait and see, there's a hypothethical league on the way.

 

7 minutes ago, Robert James said:

Did the questionnaire include the North Juniors as well ? They have rarely, if at all,  been referred to on this P&B thread (?)

I think it was sent round everyone in the SJFA. The confusion might over the way the options were presented on here. The North was supposedly excused from integrating into the pyramid, while the question was asked what tier the West & East would be set at.

Maybe they never asked what tier the North would be because they consider it so obvious to be set below the Highland League.

[Sergeant Wilson]

13 minutes ago, FairWeatherFan said:

With Clydebank already having voted to go Senior again and only a single proposal presented on Sunday. It would seem a little strange for the proposal to be wait and see, there's a hypothethical league on the way.

 

I think it was sent round everyone in the SJFA. The confusion might over the way the options were presented on here. The North was supposedly excused from integrating into the pyramid, while the question was asked what tier the West & East would be set at.

Maybe they never asked what tier the North would be because they consider it so obvious to be set below the Highland League.

What's your hurry? It's obvious a decent number of junior clubs will either force change or leave. Will a year to make that orderly and facilitate the SoSL be a problem?

The North is another problem. The HFL was included in the pyramid without a feeder or much consideration of other issues. If the Juniors had concessions like that we might be a bit further along in integration.

[heedthebaa]

10 hours ago, Vollyman said:

There are 13 clubs in the East of Scotland league and around 60 in the East Region Juniors.The Juniors have an established league format,instead of clubs leaving the Juniors the East of Scotland league could be added to the junior format and all junior clubs offered senior status.Promotion from the Super league to the lowland league should take place and a decision as to which tier the present East of Scotland league should take. It seems to me that at present the dog is wagging the tail

 

 

http://www.pieandbovril.com/forum/applications/tapatalk/index.php?/topic/255691-Bonnyrigg-Rose-should-they-stay-or-should-they-go%2E%2E%2E/page__view__findpost__p__12024891

 

fucking hell 

[Inanimate Carbon Rod]

I think it was sent round everyone in the SJFA. The confusion might over the way the options were presented on here. The North was supposedly excused from integrating into the pyramid, while the question was asked what tier the West & East would be set at.
Maybe they never asked what tier the North would be because they consider it so obvious to be set below the Highland League.

Call it a hunch but i dont think bankies will go.

[FairWeatherFan]

4 minutes ago, Sergeant Wilson said:

What's your hurry? It's obvious a decent number of junior clubs will either force change or leave. Will a year to make that orderly and facilitate the SoSL be a problem?

The North is another problem. The HFL was included in the pyramid without a feeder or much consideration of other issues. If the Juniors had concessions like that we might be a bit further along in integration.

I'm not in a hurry. It's just my feeling over the circumstances. End of the day Clydebank can only consider themselves in isolation, as its the only thing they have any control over. They had the vote to go Senior a month ago and the board went away to consider the options available to them.

If the review of the options was that the EoSFL or SoSFL weren't a viable option for next year, why the rush to stage an EGM for Sunday? Even if the proposal was for a Senior league application it will be a YES/NO vote. The board can tell the members while the proposal is to join a certain league, they'd recommend a NO vote in the best interest of the club and present the possibility of a WoSFL being set up that would be a better circumstance.

[cmontheloknow]

17 minutes ago, FairWeatherFan said:

I'm not in a hurry. It's just my feeling over the circumstances. End of the day Clydebank can only consider themselves in isolation, as its the only thing they have any control over. They had the vote to go Senior a month ago and the board went away to consider the options available to them.

If the review of the options was that the EoSFL or SoSFL weren't a viable option for next year, why the rush to stage an EGM for Sunday? Even if the proposal was for a Senior league application it will be a YES/NO vote. The board can tell the members while the proposal is to join a certain league, they'd recommend a NO vote in the best interest of the club and present the possibility of a WoSFL being set up that would be a better circumstance.

What's to stop Clydebank joining the EoS and transferring should the WoS ever get off the ground?

[FairWeatherFan]

Just now, cmontheloknow said:

What's to stop Clydebank joining the EoS and transferring should the WoS ever get off the ground?

I've suggested the same thing. Especially as people usually mention Bonnyton Thistle as a candidate to move from the SoS to any new WoS.