Junior football, what is the future?

[LongTimeLurker]

3 hours ago, kefc said:

As far as I’m aware there is now 8 applicants into the EOS with a week to go.

3 Superleague, 2 Premier, 2 South division, 1 from the West (not Clydebank)

Looking like the Lowland and East Of Scotland Leagues will be the place to be for the better non league players in the East from next season, this will only get stronger when clubs get licenced and compete in the big Scottish Cup each season. With the extra finances involved rewarding and helping clubs then Tier 5 and 6 could be about to take a major shot in the arm as budgets increase and facilities get better.

...which is a very different breakdown from the scenario we were being told by Hamish the Goalie last weekend, which had 1 East Super, 5 East Premier and 1 East South division team jumping, but you are obviously closer to the action in EoS terms.

East Super: Camelon, Bonnyrigg, ???

East Premier: Dalkeith, ???

East South: ???, ???

West: ???

 

[craigkillie]

4 hours ago, cmontheloknow said:

The results of the Junior survey will be revealing :

What did North say about whether Junior clubs (not specifically E/W) should join the pyramid?

If the link is confusing, they were asked:

Should Junior clubs join the Pyramid? Y/N
Should the Juniors come in at Level 6 (Option A) or Level 5 (Option B)?
Was the club currently meeting Club Licensing requirements?

It could be particularly problematic if the East as a whole votes to merge (somehow), but the North are against it.  In that case, if the East Juniors as we know it disappeared, what would happen to the likes of Lochee, Carnoustie and others who lie (I think) north of the Highland/Lowland divide?  They presumably wouldn't be able to join the EoS, and would therefore have to either form their own league, or more likely apply to the North Juniors or Highland League.  If they were rejected, then where do they stand?  That's why the SFA does have some responsibility to act in the North in particular, where the clubs seem unwilling or unable to do it by themselves.

[Hillonearth]

30 minutes ago, craigkillie said:

It could be particularly problematic if the East as a whole votes to merge (somehow), but the North are against it.  In that case, if the East Juniors as we know it disappeared, what would happen to the likes of Lochee, Carnoustie and others who lie (I think) north of the Highland/Lowland divide?  They presumably wouldn't be able to join the EoS, and would therefore have to either form their own league, or more likely apply to the North Juniors or Highland League.  If they were rejected, then where do they stand?  That's why the SFA does have some responsibility to act in the North in particular, where the clubs seem unwilling or unable to do it by themselves.

Somebody mentioned earlier in the thread that after researching it, the boundary between the Highland/Lowland catchment turns out to be a bit further north than most people had assumed...rather than the Tay which most folk - myself included - thought, it's actually a wee bit north of Brechin which in fact covers the whole East Region.

Montrose Roselea would have previously been the only team left out in the cold, but they've joined the North Region anyway.

[craigkillie]

The SPFL rules say that the dividing line is "56.4513N", which seems to be at the mouth of the Tay at Dundee.  I think the confusion came because folk started saying "North of the Tay" as though the line followed the river across the country rather than just being based on a fixed latitude.

That line would put 15 East Region Junior clubs in the Northern section: Arbroath Vics, Blairgowrie, Brechin Vics, Broughty Athletic, Carnoustie, Coupar Angus, Downfield, Dundee North End, Dundee Violet, East Craigie, Forfar West End, Kirriemuir, Lochee Harp, Lochee Utd, Luncarty.  It would also include Aberdeen, Arbroath, Brechin, Dundee, Dundee Utd, Elgin, Forfar, Inverness, Montrose, Peterhead and Ross County from the SPFL.

Edited March 25, 2018 by craigkillie

[Cyclizine]

The dividing line is set as  56.4513° N; if you assume that's a decimal degree, which is how it's written then it's the mouth of the Tay. If you take it as  dms 56° 45' 13" N, then it's roughly the mouth of the River North Esk which is the boundary between Angus and Aberdeenshire. I guess that makes some sense. Who knows...

[FairWeatherFan]

2 minutes ago, Cyclizine said:

The dividing line is set as  56.4513° N; if you assume that's a decimal degree, which is how it's written then it's the mouth of the Tay. If you take it as  dms 56° 45' 13" N, then it's roughly the mouth of the River North Esk which is the boundary between Angus and Aberdeenshire. I guess that makes some sense. Who knows...

I actually just emailed the Lowland League this very question. Would of emailed the Highland League as well but couldn't find a general email for them.

[cmontheloknow]

Common sense would see the boundary revisited.

[Ginaro]

4 hours ago, craigkillie said:

The SPFL rules say that the dividing line is "56.4513N", which seems to be at the mouth of the Tay at Dundee.  I think the confusion came because folk started saying "North of the Tay" as though the line followed the river across the country rather than just being based on a fixed latitude.

That line would put 15 East Region Junior clubs in the Northern section: Arbroath Vics, Blairgowrie, Brechin Vics, Broughty Athletic, Carnoustie, Coupar Angus, Downfield, Dundee North End, Dundee Violet, East Craigie, Forfar West End, Kirriemuir, Lochee Harp, Lochee Utd, Luncarty.  It would also include Aberdeen, Arbroath, Brechin, Dundee, Dundee Utd, Elgin, Forfar, Inverness, Montrose, Peterhead and Ross County from the SPFL.

I've added the Tay dividing line to this map of all Scottish senior/junior clubs: https://www.google.com/maps/d/u/0/viewer?mid=1k4xWEiA6DvPhdnfOqT835ybt52xQ4Grr&ll=56.965619412276396%2C-3.89299845000005&z=7

Once you display all the junior teams it does show the obvious gap between Montrose and Stonehaven, which seems like a good divider (i.e. 56° 45' 13" N) . However then there's the problem of having long journeys like Brechin v Hawick, although it would be about the same as Brechin going to Inverness. Suppose you're always going to have this problem unless you create a fourth region for Fife/Tayside/Stirling.

Edited March 25, 2018 by Ginaro

[San Starko Rover]

...which is a very different breakdown from the scenario we were being told by Hamish the Goalie last weekend, which had 1 East Super, 5 East Premier and 1 East South division team jumping, but you are obviously closer to the action in EoS terms.
East Super: Camelon, Bonnyrigg, ???
East Premier: Dalkeith, ???
East South: ???, ???
West: ???
 

If the West team is true, it obviously doesn’t say which division they’re from just that it’s not Clydebank. Could it be someone right over the east side of the divide like Shotts Bon Accord, Forth Wanderers or even Kilsyth Rangers for teams in this area you’d imagine travel East v West wouldn’t be much difference so switching would be relatively easy. All 100% speculation but it’ll be interesting to see after the end of the month who applied for EoS / SoS and if we hear anything more on WoS and which teams are nailing their colours to the Juniors mast.

[FairWeatherFan]

6 minutes ago, San Starko Rover said:

 

If the West team is true, it obviously doesn’t say which division they’re from just that it’s not Clydebank. Could it be someone right over the east side of the divide like Shotts Bon Accord, Forth Wanderers or even Kilsyth Rangers for teams in this area you’d imagine travel East v West wouldn’t be much difference so switching would be relatively easy. All 100% speculation but it’ll be interesting to see after the end of the month who applied for EoS / SoS and if we hear anything more on WoS and which teams are nailing their colours to the Juniors mast.

 

Dunipace was a suggestion over in the EoSFL forum.

[Glenconner]

9 hours ago, LongTimeLurker said:

East Super: Camelon, Bonnyrigg, ???

East Premier: Dalkeith, ???

East South: ???, ???

West: Wishaw ???

 

 

[Goalie Hamish]

...which is a very different breakdown from the scenario we were being told by Hamish the Goalie last weekend, which had 1 East Super, 5 East Premier and 1 East South division team jumping, but you are obviously closer to the action in EoS terms.
East Super: Camelon, Bonnyrigg, ???
East Premier: Dalkeith, ???
East South: ???, ???
West: ???
 

I had 3 Super teams moving and 3 Premier, 1 South. There will be more.

[drs]

11 hours ago, FairWeatherFan said:

Dunipace was a suggestion over in the EoSFL forum.

...and just that, a suggestion - the same as Camelon. But Camelon now seem to be seen as a stick on to move and yet no one at this point in time has presented any evidence about them looking to move.

At the moment all of these names, bar Dalkeith, seem to be nothing more than rumours and half truths. If there is information to share then I'm sure the clubs will do so at the appropriate time.

[Guest]

1 hour ago, Goalie Hamish said:

 

 

I had 3 Super teams moving and 3 Premier, 1 South. There will be more.

 

Let's say this is true, to one degree or another. What will the EOSL look like in a few years time? Half dozen or so Junior sides and the current EOS clubs making up a league. Taking into account that only one will be promoted into the LL, and there is a play off with the club coming down. It could result in a number of Junior clubs being in the EOSL for years. Will this really be a better option that the current East Juniors Leagues as is?

[LongTimeLurker]

54 minutes ago, drs said:

...and just that, a suggestion - the same as Camelon. But Camelon now seem to be seen as a stick on to move and yet no one at this point in time has presented any evidence about them looking to move.

At the moment all of these names, bar Dalkeith, seem to be nothing more than rumours and half truths. If there is information to share then I'm sure the clubs will do so at the appropriate time.

 

On 2018/03/18 at 14:50, drs said:

 

From the Camelon website,

This season has been one of reshaping for the future.  Next season is going to be awesome! Watch this space for more….

#wearecamelonfc

On 2018/03/22 at 12:45, LongTimeLurker said:

http://www.bonnyriggrosefc.co.uk/teams/118321/news/results-of-sgm-2227290.html

...We will take the mandate given to us by our members to set the wheels in motion in order to make the recommended proposal a reality over the course of the next few months...

Edited March 26, 2018 by LongTimeLurker

[jaggywaggy]

8 minutes ago, Isabel Goudie said:

Let's say this is true, to one degree or another. What will the EOSL look like in a few years time? Half dozen or so Junior sides and the current EOS clubs making up a league. Taking into account that only one will be promoted into the LL, and there is a play off with the club coming down. It could result in a number of Junior clubs being in the EOSL for years. Will this really be a better option that the current East Juniors Leagues as is?

Yes.

[Inanimate Carbon Rod]

Hearing rumours about the Bankies meeting, don’t want to burst my source will wait for confirmation.

[LongTimeLurker]

11 hours ago, Glenconner said:

West: Wishaw ???

Any particular reason? Vaguely remember somebody on their committee being pro-pyramid on here at one point, but that could easily be a personal opinion as with Tynieness where Bo'ness is concerned. AFJ spilled the beans a few days back on where Bo'ness stand over on the Tony Kempster forum (assuming there aren't two Linfield supporters that also back Camelon kicking about):

http://nonleaguematters.co.uk/forum/gforum.cgi?post=862409#862409

I have a friend who is at Bo'ness and he tells me that while some want to progress to the EoS and then LL, most of the committee are happy where they are, so he does not expect any announcement to this end.

so that's an example of the online people not necessarily being in synch with the rest of the club.

Edited March 26, 2018 by LongTimeLurker

[drs]

21 minutes ago, LongTimeLurker said:

 

 

 

Yes, I put the information from their website on here but at no point did I or anyone who is connected to the club say that a move was happening - its taken legs and people are now bandying around names with limited (or in most cases no)  information around what is really happening.  

As I mentioned Dalkeith are the only ones to currently have said they are applying, your link to Bonnyrigg just says that wheels are being set in motion - this could be for next season or it could be for the season after, at this point we don't know but people seem to be making assumptions, a lot of assumptions.

It'll all come out in the wash.

[Marshmallo]

38 minutes ago, Isabel Goudie said:

Let's say this is true, to one degree or another. What will the EOSL look like in a few years time? Half dozen or so Junior sides and the current EOS clubs making up a league. Taking into account that only one will be promoted into the LL, and there is a play off with the club coming down. It could result in a number of Junior clubs being in the EOSL for years. Will this really be a better option that the current East Juniors Leagues as is?

There's no playoff with the club coming down.