Junior football, what is the future?

[Baxter's Nutmeg]

24 minutes ago, Inanimate Carbon Rod said:

Hearing rumours about the Bankies meeting, don’t want to burst my source will wait for confirmation.

Well thanks for that..........eh information:)

[tell_me_more]

23 hours ago, cmontheloknow said:

The results of the Junior survey will be revealing :

What did North say about whether Junior clubs (not specifically E/W) should join the pyramid?

If the link is confusing, they were asked:

Should Junior clubs join the Pyramid? Y/N
Should the Juniors come in at Level 6 (Option A) or Level 5 (Option B)?
Was the club currently meeting Club Licensing requirements?

Not strictly accurate question one was :

Should Junior Clubs join the CURRENT pyramid?  Which in the West means going through SOS or EOS leagues. 
and not
Should Junior clubs join the pyramid?

A club, in the west particuarly,  could well answer no to joining the current pyramid but be all for joining a revised pyramid with a west feeder ( my own preference Super Premier Div at level 6) .

The questionnaire was poorly worded in my opinion and should either not have contained the word current or should have had an additional choice.

Or am I missing something? Was an assumption to be made that it would be revised?

 

[HTG]

38 minutes ago, Isabel Goudie said:

Let's say this is true, to one degree or another. What will the EOSL look like in a few years time? Half dozen or so Junior sides and the current EOS clubs making up a league. Taking into account that only one will be promoted into the LL, and there is a play off with the club coming down. It could result in a number of Junior clubs being in the EOSL for years. Will this really be a better option that the current East Juniors Leagues as is?

That's the prospective position for next season only. Are you suggesting that this is the end of the road and that the league will still only have those 5 or 6 teams in say 5 years time? I think that's a very naive assumption. 

[Cyclizine]

Let's say this is true, to one degree or another. What will the EOSL look like in a few years time? Half dozen or so Junior sides and the current EOS clubs making up a league. Taking into account that only one will be promoted into the LL, and there is a play off with the club coming down. It could result in a number of Junior clubs being in the EOSL for years. Will this really be a better option that the current East Juniors Leagues as is?

Currently the only play off is between EoSFL and SoSFL for promotion to the LFL if both teams are licenced. I wouldn't imagine there'd be playoffs between EoSFL Premier and First etc once they get reconstituted, so it'd be exactly like the current ERJFA setup anyway.

[HTG]

2 minutes ago, tell_me_more said:

Not strictly accurate question one was :

Should Junior Clubs join the CURRENT pyramid?  Which in the West means going through SOS or EOS leagues. 
and not
Should Junior clubs join the pyramid?

A club, in the west particuarly,  could well answer no to joining the current pyramid but be all for joining a revised pyramid with a west feeder ( my own preference Super Premier Div at level 6) .

The questionnaire was poorly worded in my opinion and should either not have contained the word current or should have had an additional choice.

Or am I missing something? Was an assumption to be made that it would be revised?

 

The questionnaire was dreadful. There are any number of issues or scenarios that it didn't look at - primarily because its core purpose was to maintain the integrity of the SJFA and junior football. It was never a "what are the best options" paper. It was "what are the best options for junior football". 

If a WoSL league were to be developed and populated by the current west juniors top flight, I'd be wanting to understand why the East juniors were only able to secure something like 5 spaces at Tier 6 whilst the West could have 16 or 18. 

A west tier 6 needn't have anything to do with the current west junior set up. It would be a new league and as such any club could apply to join it from within a reasonable distance. It's not beyond logic that any club in the middle of the country could do so. 

[Ginaro]

1 hour ago, Isabel Goudie said:

Let's say this is true, to one degree or another. What will the EOSL look like in a few years time? Half dozen or so Junior sides and the current EOS clubs making up a league. Taking into account that only one will be promoted into the LL, and there is a play off with the club coming down. It could result in a number of Junior clubs being in the EOSL for years. Will this really be a better option that the current East Juniors Leagues as is?

Can you explain why it would be a bad thing to be in the EoSFL for years?

What are the advantages of remaining in the East Juniors? Especially for clubs like Newtongrange if their close rivals are in the EoSFL.

[FairWeatherFan]

18 hours ago, FairWeatherFan said:

I actually just emailed the Lowland League this very question. Would of emailed the Highland League as well but couldn't find a general email for them.

The reply I got was the following:

" The boundary between SHFL and SLFL has been set as the midway point on the Tay Bridge " from David Baxter the secretary of the Lowland League.

[LongTimeLurker]

Good to get that cleared up. That makes the Broughty (presumably?) licensing scenario interesting to watch.

Edited March 26, 2018 by LongTimeLurker

[newcastle broon]

28 minutes ago, Ginaro said:

Can you explain why it would be a bad thing to be in the EoSFL for years?

What are the advantages of remaining in the East Juniors? Especially for clubs like Newtongrange if their close rivals are in the EoSFL.

Good luck wi that one I'm still waiting on Isa s reply from Saturday when I posted some facts aboot the LL. 

[Guest]

2 hours ago, jaggywaggy said:

Yes.

I'm saying that if four or five Junior clubs jump ship, it is entirely feasible that they could end up in that league for an extended time. How can a league that contains  teams that can loose 115 and 97 goals in 17 games, with the addition of a handful of Junior teams be better than the East Super League as is? My point is that clubs are looking to take a leap, but might end up stuck in what is being pitched as a go between. Let's  say Kelty don't get up this year, then one or two Junior clubs jump in, they don't get up next year, will the momentum not grind to a halt?

[Kilbowie Benches]

Isa’s alive !!

I thought you’d killed yourself after Saturday when the all conquering Talbot got a doing from a “mediocre” Bankies team?

Edited March 26, 2018 by Kilbowie Benches

[Born To Run]

5 minutes ago, Isabel Goudie said:

I'm saying that if four or five Junior clubs jump ship, it is entirely feasible that they could end up in that league for an extended time. How can a league that contains  teams that can loose 115 and 97 goals in 17 games, with the addition of a handful of Junior teams be better than the East Super League as is? My point is that clubs are looking to take a leap, but might end up stuck in what is being pitched as a go between. Let's  say Kelty don't get up this year, then one or two Junior clubs jump in, they don't get up next year, will the momentum not grind to a halt?

There are the makings of a decent point in there.

I'm reliably informed that we're now into double figures on the number of Juniors with applications in for the EoS next season, which means many of them will be 'stuck' in the league for at least a few years. I guess it all comes down to the standard of the applicants, as after 2018/19 there will most likely be a return to the EoS Premier and E0S 1st Division. This will limit the number of heavy beatings dished out, and the Premier sides will set the standard against each other. It might well be a better standard than the weakened East Super League left behind, with the additional bonus of greater financial support and Scottish Cup entry once licensing is confirmed.

[Guest]

2 minutes ago, Kilbowie Benches said:

Isa’s alive !!

I thought you’d killed yourself after Saturday when the all conquering Talbot got a doing from a “mediocre” Bankies team?

Well done the Bankies, never made it, quite glad, some game I hear. One swallow and all that!

[Enigma]

I'm reliably informed that we're now into double figures on the number of Juniors with applications in for the EoS next season

Wow! That’s incredible.

[Ross.]

38 minutes ago, Isabel Goudie said:

I'm saying that if four or five Junior clubs jump ship, it is entirely feasible that they could end up in that league for an extended time. How can a league that contains  teams that can loose 115 and 97 goals in 17 games, with the addition of a handful of Junior teams be better than the East Super League as is? My point is that clubs are looking to take a leap, but might end up stuck in what is being pitched as a go between. Let's  say Kelty don't get up this year, then one or two Junior clubs jump in, they don't get up next year, will the momentum not grind to a halt?

By the same token, if Kelty had remained junior what was there to gain? They may still be stuck in the same league for years...

[Guest]

1 minute ago, Ross. said:

By the same token, if Kelty had remained junior what was there to gain? They may still be stuck in the same league for years...

My point being that the East Super is surely a much better standard  over all. Kelty are dreaming of promotion into senior nirvana and I assume see EOSL as a stepping stone, they might not reach the other side or worse, fall in!

[Ross.]

Just now, Isabel Goudie said:

My point being that the East Super is surely a much better standard  over all. Kelty are dreaming of promotion into senior nirvana and I assume see EOSL as a stepping stone, they might not reach the other side or worse, fall in!

But with other Junior sides moving over the standard in EoSL will improve. At the moment I would say it is more likely that the juniors will end up the weaker set up, quality wise. There is now a huge risk no matter what option teams go with but the momentum is gathering in EoSL's favour.

[LongTimeLurker]

8 minutes ago, Isabel Goudie said:

My point being that the East Super is surely a much better standard  over all. Kelty are dreaming of promotion into senior nirvana and I assume see EOSL as a stepping stone, they might not reach the other side or worse, fall in!

To put the numbers in perspective, by my reckoning 17 of 60 east region clubs are in the HL catchment if the Tay Bridge boundary is accurate (and the LL secretary seems like a credible source). Once you get past 10 clubs moving you are looking at about a quarter of the junior membership in Perth, Fife, Stirlingshire, Clackmannanshire and the Lothians. Both the EoS and the east region juniors would be profoundly different from what they have been previously at that point and old assumptions about their relative quality no longer apply. Having said that 10 clubs actually going through with it when all is said and done is still in believe it when I see it territory as far as I am concerned. Posts like that of drs should be taken seriously.

[HTG]

1 minute ago, Ross. said:

But with other Junior sides moving over the standard in EoSL will improve. At the moment I would say it is more likely that the juniors will end up the weaker set up, quality wise. There is now a huge risk no matter what option teams go with but the momentum is gathering in EoSL's favour.

This is very true. The East is complicated because there are existing clubs in situ. They can't just be swept aside but for Isa that seems to be the stopper. So if everyone takes that attitude, nothing can ever change. There is absolutely no chance of the SJFA option of sitting the east junior structure alongside the east ofrom Scotland league.  And why would the east juniors want that? EoS teams permanently at Tier 6 because there is nothing under them.  East juniors with 60 teams fighting for the same level as the few in the east and south. So the only option is to integrate. You could do that through a merit approach but it will need to be agree very quickly. It's already difficult to agree because Kelty accepted the situation. It becomes harder once the next 5 or 6 do the same. 

But maybe it's better to just watch the drips and hope they never form a big puddle. 

[Guest]

10 minutes ago, Ross. said:

But with other Junior sides moving over the standard in EoSL will improve. At the moment I would say it is more likely that the juniors will end up the weaker set up, quality wise. There is now a huge risk no matter what option teams go with but the momentum is gathering in EoSL's favour.

I suppose it depends on how many and who jump, sure the standard could rise, but you would still have some very weak sides and dare I say it, mediocre Juniors Despite all the criticism of the Juniors, some of it merited, staying in a league that will certainly be no worse and still throw up massive Scottish ties with big West clubs. I am suggesting that what some are dreaming of might well never happen. Perhaps clubs should look very closely at this.