Junior football, what is the future?

[The Moonster]

24 minutes ago, the rambler said:

The Scottish Cup certainly isnt a diddy cup. Its the one that 160 teams in the Juniors would love to win.

How many teams in the amateurs would want to win the amateur cup?  Probably well over 160. It's still a diddy cup. No shame in it, accept your diddy status - it will help with your realism.

[Guest]

31 minutes ago, the rambler said:

The Scottish Cup certainly isnt a diddy cup. Its the one that 160 teams in the Juniors would love to win.

Its pretty obvious that Talbot fans wouldnt want to move from the Juniors having won the Cup a record 11 times as that feat will diminish over time if the Juniors are integrated into the Pyramid and the Cup is replaced by another national cup competition. If it was my team I would feel the same.

There is no need for it to be diminished, it could and should be expanded, name intact and be the national non league cup! Thus helping keep some Junior tradition, kick start a new pyramid and keep a lot of clubs happy.

Edited May 10, 2018 by Guest

[Guest]

42 minutes ago, Kilbowie Benches said:

The problem isn’t that you won it it’s the fact that you want to keep repeating it rather than move on and try challenging yourselves at a higher level.Hanging around hoovering up diddy cups impresses nobody!

No, that is not what your post implied. You mocked the fact that Talbot put stars on their badge commemorating the achievement of winning a very difficult competition. You termed it as ridiculous and you were self indulging in ridicule, ironically directed at something any level headed person would  consider a tremendous achievement. Not clever, and sadly seems to be the attitude of a sizable group who frequent a forum set up for the grade they so blatantly appear to abhor.

[leomessi1984]

1 hour ago, Isabel Goudie said:

They turned on their own!

That is a horrific post!!

[Blackie Gold]

58 minutes ago, Enigma said:

Should never be forgotten how the so-called ‘big’ junior clubs poo-pooed the Lowland League from its inception. A team like Talbot could have been at the crest of the wave, setting the agenda and could even be in the SPFL by now. Instead they’ll be joining at no better than tier 6, below the likes of Edusport and BSC Alloa. That must be a sore one for such a ‘prestigious’ club. With Cowdenbeath potentially coming down and East Stirlingshire having come down combined with the strong teams in the Highlands I guess Talbot would be scared they’d struggle to win a combined non-league cup. Understandable.

Talbot will never be in the SPFL even if they won promotion to it.  Talbot also didn't cock a snook at the LL as they are not interested in it.  

[Black & Red Socks]

Decided to try and put a bit of meat to the bones of how an integrated set-up in the East may pan out for season 2019/20 and move the conversation away from monkeys.  This could be way off the mark as there is a 101 ways to go about integrating the leagues, and also I had to make a number of assumptions and guesses;

• Top 6 in each EoS section next season are guaranteed a top division place, with Dundonald added, for 2019/20, the remaining 3 vacancies to be filled by top 3 Junior Superleague from Lothians/Fife.
• Two places for LL up for grabs, Bonnyrigg and Hill of Beath win the play-offs in 2018/19, Gala and Vale of Leithen are relegated (sorry)
• ERJFA is dissolved and all clubs move to EoS
• Tayside and Perthshire clubs are not included and integrate with the North.

The EoS First Division for 2019/20 could therefore look like;
Gala Fairydean Rovers (relegated LL)
Vale of Leithen (relegated LL)
Dundonald Bluebell (deferred application)
Camelon Juniors  (top 6 2018/19)
Musselburgh Ath (top 6 2018/19)
Haddington Ath (top 6 2018/19)
Blackburn United (top 6 2018/19)
Tranent Juniors (top 6 2018/19)
Dalkeith Thistle (top 6 2018/19)
Lothian Thistle Hutchison Vale (top 6 2018/19)
Leith Athletic (top 6 2018/19)
Preston Athletic (top 6 2018/19)
Edinburgh United (top 6 2018/19)
Linlithgow Rose (top 3 Superleague)
Penicuik Athletic (top 3 Superleague)
Bo’ness United (top 3 Superleague)
The remaining EoS members plus the Lothians and Fife newcomers split into 3 equal sections of 13 or 14 clubs for 2019/20, with the winners of each section replacing the three bottom clubs in the First Division for 2020/21. The next 4 finishers in each section (12) plus the 3 relegated clubs form the Second Division (plus one via best 6th placed or something) to form a 16 team league.  There would then be 3 up/down between First and Second Division.  That would leave circa 24 clubs to form two regional divisions at tier 8 (or Third and Fourth Divisions at tier 8 and 9), with vacancies for new clubs eg Musselburgh Windsor, St.Bernards etc.
So for 2020/21 you have an EoS First Division of 16 clubs with top 2 entering LL play-offs, bottom three relegated. EoS Second Division of 16 clubs with top 3 promoted and bottom 2/3/4 relegated depending on set-up of the lower two divisions. 2-3 seasons from 2019/2020 most clubs will have found their level, and some will have made their way into the LL.
Whether any of that (or something similar) could be negotiated by the PWG in time for the SJFA EGM I have my doubts, but if so it does provide the opportunity for current Superleague clubs who aren’t moving, to enter at tier 6 for 2019/20.

This seems an eminently sensible and pragmatic way in which to take the game forward and one which surely ticks most boxes of even the most vociferously anti change posters on here.

The EoSFL board are reputed to be switched on and inclusive both as a board and as individuals and should they and the other members of the PWG view anything similar to the above as workable and can agree upon it as the correct and desired course of action then I’d venture to suggest that we’d be well on our way along the correct path.

[Auld Heid]

11 minutes ago, Burnie_man said:

The HFL, LL, EoS, SoS and SJFA actually ARE the SFA!  Two sit on the Professional Game Board, and three sit on the Non-Professional Game Board, both Boards have reps on the SFA Board and all sit on the PWG.

So when you say the SFA should show leadership and vision, “they” are doing just that by having Board members working on a solution via their own PWG, or are you suggesting the interim CEO or the new CEO should have imposed their own will despite not having a full understanding of the issues? It doesn’t work like that, no FA works like that.

The  HFL, LL, EoS, SoS and SJFA are only small component parts of the wider SFA who remain the governing body.  My point was that the PWG haven't delivered much progress since the formation of the LL.

My view remains the SFA should be setting out their vision (leadership) to the component parts to deliver/refine.   Instead it feels like the SFA have taken the easy option and said to the PWG you get on with it.   A group who consists of numerous bodies with their own Agenda's and unlikely to agree beyond their own views.  

At what stage do you say enough talking and take ownership of the situation  - what has the PWG actually delivered?  How long has the LL been in place with chaos below?  Chaos in teams winning leagues but not licensed and unable to move - that really defeats the concept of a proper functioning pyramid. (my understanding - I'm no expert)

The new CEO of the SFA should take ownership and chair and maybe then you would see progress.

 

 

 

[Burnie_man]

The  HFL, LL, EoS, SoS and SJFA are only small component parts of the wider SFA who remain the governing body.  My point was that the PWG haven't delivered much progress since the formation of the LL.
My view remains the SFA should be setting out their vision (leadership) to the component parts to deliver/refine.   Instead it feels like the SFA have taken the easy option and said to the PWG you get on with it.   A group who consists of numerous bodies with their own Agenda's and unlikely to agree beyond their own views.  
At what stage do you say enough talking and take ownership of the situation  - what has the PWG actually delivered?  How long has the LL been in place with chaos below?  Chaos in teams winning leagues but not licensed and unable to move - that really defeats the concept of a proper functioning pyramid. (my understanding - I'm no expert)
The new CEO of the SFA should take ownership and chair and maybe then you would see progress.

The PWG didnt have anything to deliver after the LL came into being as the SJFA weren't interested. My understanding was they rarely met. There is no chaos in the Pyramid, the rules are understood.

As for the SFA, who are they if they are not the SFA Board? They aren't one single person, they are the sum of its parts with the SFA Board at the head, and the Board have passed this matter to the PWG - rightly as that is what they are there for - to progress now that the SJFA want to talk turkey.

All this because Lithgae are sitting on their hands and trusting TJ to deliver out of some misguided sense of loyalty to the grade.

[Burnie_man]

12 minutes ago, Auld Heid said:

The new CEO of the SFA should take ownership and chair and maybe then you would see progress.

Also just on this particular point, and in light of your Chairman's recent comments in the media about ambition and SPFL status, why isn't he taking ownership, showing leadership and vision, and moving Linlithgow into the Pyramid next season?  That is what you're demanding of the SFA CEO.

[FairWeatherFan]

18 hours ago, HTG said:

23 hours ago, AlanCamelonfan said:

We are joining at a time in bulk couldn't do that every year or you would have parallel league for 20 years as you lot fart about

We are talking about one season.  

 

9 hours ago, Salvo Montalbano said:

17 hours ago, FairWeatherFan said:

Presumably two, since the EoS will run parallel sections in 2018-19 and then the Juniors in 2019-20. Unless you think it could all be agreed in time for 2018-19?

 

This hasn't actually been agreed or even mentioned elsewhere than on here though, has it? I don't see why the EoSL would be compelled to run parallel sections again even if the EJFA folded and all the teams applied. They probably would but there is no indication that it's even been discussed formally has it?

 

AlanCamelonFan's post was about going through parallel leagues for years as a way to integrate the EoS with the Juniors.

HTG said it would only be one season. To which I was slightly correcting them, as from the EoS perspective it would mean 2 years as they're already accomodating a surplus of clubs at tier 6 and would then have to do it again.

[Goalie Hamish]

34 minutes ago, Blackie Gold said:

Talbot will never be in the SPFL even if they won promotion to it.  Talbot also didn't cock a snook at the LL as they are not interested in it.  

So nae licence for you then! Whit happens when all the west Juniors move to a WOS League, you going ammy?

[Blackie Gold]

12 minutes ago, Goalie Hamish said:

So nae licence for you then! Whit happens when all the west Juniors move to a WOS League, you going ammy?

Naw we will just go with the flow.....tootle along with all the other dead wood in the all new Pyramid heaven.

[Enigma]

Naw we will just go with the flow.....tootle along with all the other dead wood in the all new Pyramid heaven.

No big Scottish Cup for you then.

[Blackie Gold]

Just now, Enigma said:

 

No big Scottish Cup for you then.

 

Of course we will be in the big Scottish our ground is up to license grade, and we will go for it so we get our nose in the trough along with all the other dead wood in this pyramid heaven.

[Auld Heid]

Also just on this particular point, and in light of your Chairman's recent comments in the media about ambition and SPFL status, why isn't he taking ownership, showing leadership and vision, and moving Linlithgow into the Pyramid next season?  That is what you're demanding of the SFA CEO.

These are my views alone.

Linlithgow haven't discussed this matter with members - so their actual views are still unknown.

You get differing views depending on who you ask.

[Goalie Hamish]

Just now, Blackie Gold said:

Naw we will just go with the flow.....tootle along with all the other dead wood in the all new Pyramid heaven.

Awe the big west clubs will be in the pyramid but you don't want promotion tae the LL or SPFL so youll be left way behind.

Nae mair stars for you blackie!

[drs]

Thanks to the mods for the clean up.

[Goalie Hamish]

1 minute ago, Blackie Gold said:

Of course we will be in the big Scottish our ground is up to license grade, and we will go for it so we get our nose in the trough along with all the other dead wood in this pyramid heaven.

You'll no be able to turn down promotion tae the LL if yer licenced, you've no thought this thru

[FairWeatherFan]

1 hour ago, bendan said:

Yes, there hasn't been much Working being done by the PWG. At the very least they should have addressed the issue of relegation and promotion from and to the HL.

Until a league comes forward to run at Tier 6 there's nothing much that the PWG can do in relation to the HL. When the Lowland League was created it didn't have feeder leagues. Partly because there's meant to have been this offer to the SJFA to set the Superleagues at tier 6 but then that never happened. The SoS/EoS then pursued Tier 6 status and gained the promotion playoff they have now.

No league has tried to do the same in the North. As for the HL themselves they've technically taken it into consideration. They are open to membership from applicants and once they have more than 20 member clubs they'll split into divisions.

[Blackie Gold]

1 minute ago, Goalie Hamish said:

Awe the big west clubs will be in the pyramid but you don't want promotion tae the LL or SPFL so youll be left way behind.

Nae mair stars for you blackie!

Afraid not were just going to be dead wood in this all singing dancing pyramid heaven