.Stuart. Posted May 11, 2018 Share Posted May 11, 2018 Aye. And neither are the Rangers. Do you expect me to disagree with you or something? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leomessi1984 Posted May 11, 2018 Share Posted May 11, 2018 1 hour ago, Owen Morgan said: Yes, I’m Isa Goudie. Then god help you sir! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Mantis Posted May 11, 2018 Share Posted May 11, 2018 26 minutes ago, leomessi1984 said: Then god help you my good man! FTFY 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
superbigal Posted May 11, 2018 Share Posted May 11, 2018 Which one is burnieman ? [emoji8] 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
San Starko Rover Posted May 11, 2018 Share Posted May 11, 2018 Which one is burnieman ? [emoji8] Wait I thought he was the organ grinder? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kernovian Posted May 11, 2018 Share Posted May 11, 2018 I'm a sassenach with a vast knowledge of English non-league and a burgeoning interest in Scottish non-league. I feel the need to thank you passionate fans on this thread for the entertaining and often hilarious banter here. As a non-Scots. poster, I'd just like to say that I have no side in this whole Seniors vs. Juniors debate and thus any comments I might make are neutral or possibly are otherwise from a devil's advocacy standpoint. I'd like to share the parable of the Northern League, the English league serving the NE of the country since 1889. The NL was for 90-odd years one of the strongest competitions outwith the Football League itself, remarkable; if for no other reason; due to its adherence to Amateurism. Then, in the early '70s the 'shamateurism' kerfuffle emerged and ushered-in a new era including semi-professionalism. Out went the famous FA Amateur Cup, replaced by the new FA Trophy for the semi-pros., while the rest competed for the novel FA Vase. The Alliance Premier League (now aka National League) was formed to include the very best semi-pro. clubs of the time for the 1979-80 season and these were initially drawn from the Southern League Premier Division and the Northern Premier League. The NL and the Isthmian Premier League had been offered the opportunity to enter teams for APL acceptance, but both had declined and so the first edition of non-league's first national division kicked off with just 20 teams in it. The two 'amateur' leagues; NL & IL; had quibbled letting their members turn semi-pro. in order to ascend to the APL... however, the IL came around within a couple of years and two from its roster joined the APL for the 1981-82 season. The SL, NPL & IL competitions formed the pyramid beneath the APL, nut the NL repeatedly failed to accept their repeated invitations to join the pyramid until 1991 when they were effectively forced to. The decision to remain aloof proved very costly to the NL's status, the opportunity to become a feeder league to the APL had long passed and it was forced to become a feeder league to the lower division of the Northern Premier League, two tiers below the APL! Even since joining the pyramid, the NL hasn't chosen to exactly 'play ball' with very few of its clubs taking promotion into the NPL, since. This will now supposedly change as the FA's Leagues' Committee has decreed promotion to be mandatory for all champions at the NL's level and will, in fact, see two promoted into NPL North Division; due to some restructuring going on; this season. I see echoes of this story North of the Border, now. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HTG Posted May 11, 2018 Share Posted May 11, 2018 9 minutes ago, San Starko Rover said: Wait I thought he was the organ grinder? Aye - that's Hamish with the laptop. Auld Heid is sitting with the paperwork from Kefc in front of him that lists all the benefits. Robert James is in the chair. Comeontheloknow has got the wee heart above his head trying to walk the tightrope and spread the love. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted May 11, 2018 Share Posted May 11, 2018 4 hours ago, cmontheloknow said: But it's a national cup none of them can win. The dream is only to add to the purse. Again, look down south - everyone enters two national cups. I followed Southport in the Northern Premier and Conference for a few years - the FA Trophy was a huge date on the calendar, just as I'm sure the FA Vase is for the smaller sides. Port's FA Trophy final at Wembley was a momentous occasion. I really think a combined non-league national cup could be a winner - actual competition from the North for starters. The South Regional Challenge Cup covers all the LL / EoS / SoS sides already - you only need to find space in the Highland fixture list for the games. I would be staggered if there is not a national cup for all once the pyramid is fully up and running (ie with the Juniors on board in whatever capacity). I believe you and I share broadly similar views on most subjects and I do get the sentiment behind what you are saying. However, I don't really see there to be a need for another national trophy to be played by everyone...... How about a compromise where you have a North, East, South and West Cup (regional) and have the four winners play off for national champion? Sort of like nfl playoffs etc? I don't think another non league national trophy is required, but that is just my opinion would be happy to go with whatever all parties are happy with once and agreement is reached. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goalie Hamish Posted May 11, 2018 Share Posted May 11, 2018 4 minutes ago, HTG said: Aye - that's Hamish with the laptop. A just use that for watching porn during tedious meetings. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cmontheloknow Posted May 11, 2018 Share Posted May 11, 2018 (edited) 5 minutes ago, G4Mac said: I believe you and I share broadly similar views on most subjects and I do get the sentiment behind what you are saying. However, I don't really see there to be a need for another national trophy to be played by everyone...... How about a compromise where you have a North, East, South and West Cup (regional) and have the four winners play off for national champion? Sort of like nfl playoffs etc? I don't think another non league national trophy is required, but that is just my opinion would be happy to go with whatever all parties are happy with once and agreement is reached. It's the one of the highlights of the year for 160 clubs - it will not be given up willingly. We all have district-wide cups already which hold nowhere near the same allure. From a personal perspective, I really look forward to the Junior Cup draws. Inevitably it ends in disappointment with another home game v Roayl Albert! Edited May 11, 2018 by cmontheloknow 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted May 11, 2018 Share Posted May 11, 2018 The highlight of the year? Sorry I may be getting mixed up here? Are you speaking of the sjfa junior Cup and it not being given up willingly? If so, why not give it up? There is no sponsorship for it, non of the smaller junior sides hold it in much regard (as they have no chance if winning it - the same argument you suggested about the SFA Scottish Cup). Why then, when a club joins the Senior pyramid, put another cup in place that clubs have no chance of winning and that has no current place in the pyramid - for the sake of the potential 160 clubs now wishing to join? In all my years of playing junior, I never really got the buzz that others seem to get about the junior Cup.... Maybe just me though but on a personal level it didn't matter to me how far we got or what tie we got. Playing well in the league was much more important than a potential one off cup game. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jason King Posted May 11, 2018 Share Posted May 11, 2018 I'd always take the League over the Cup, the league shows you are the most consistent team over the season. A cup can be decided by many random factors that allow mediocre teams to triumph. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blackie Gold Posted May 11, 2018 Share Posted May 11, 2018 12 minutes ago, Jason King said: I'd always take the League over the Cup, the league shows you are the most consistent team over the season. A cup can be decided by many random factors that allow mediocre teams to triumph. Actually your wrong. The constant feck ups by the fixture man and the hurry to get the games by for the ET cup have a big bearing on the league in the West, making it no more than a lottery. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kilbowie Benches Posted May 11, 2018 Share Posted May 11, 2018 18 minutes ago, Blackie Gold said: Actually your wrong. The constant feck ups by the fixture man and the hurry to get the games by for the ET cup have a big bearing on the league in the West, making it no more than a lottery. That will be the fixture man that YOUR club voted for last year. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cmontheloknow Posted May 11, 2018 Share Posted May 11, 2018 49 minutes ago, G4Mac said: The highlight of the year? Sorry I may be getting mixed up here? Are you speaking of the sjfa junior Cup and it not being given up willingly? If so, why not give it up? There is no sponsorship for it, non of the smaller junior sides hold it in much regard (as they have no chance if winning it - the same argument you suggested about the SFA Scottish Cup). Why then, when a club joins the Senior pyramid, put another cup in place that clubs have no chance of winning and that has no current place in the pyramid - for the sake of the potential 160 clubs now wishing to join? In all my years of playing junior, I never really got the buzz that others seem to get about the junior Cup.... Maybe just me though but on a personal level it didn't matter to me how far we got or what tie we got. Playing well in the league was much more important than a potential one off cup game. Maybe it's a supporter thing then. Pollok didn't win it until its 8th decade of existence, and while we've had a few wins since, we're now over 20 years since the last one. An away day somewhere new, the big crowds that unarguably do come out for the latter stages (2-legged semis excepted sometimes!), there's a sense of occasion for me on Junior Cup day. The cup has got many downfalls but none for me dilute the thrill of a run in the Junior Cup, even if it does more likely than not end in distaster / heartbreak! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Burnie_man Posted May 11, 2018 Author Share Posted May 11, 2018 1 hour ago, superbigal said: Which one is burnieman ? I'm the unseen puppet master pulling the strings, or a Nazi collaborator, or something................... 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted May 11, 2018 Share Posted May 11, 2018 7 minutes ago, cmontheloknow said: Maybe it's a supporter thing then. Pollok didn't win it until its 8th decade of existence, and while we've had a few wins since, we're now over 20 years since the last one. An away day somewhere new, the big crowds that unarguably do come out for the latter stages (2-legged semis excepted sometimes!), there's a sense of occasion for me on Junior Cup day. The cup has got many downfalls but none for me dilute the thrill of a run in the Junior Cup, even if it does more likely than not end in distaster / heartbreak! Your post sums up what every junior club supporter sees in the anticipation of the draw for this competition.. each round HAS a sense of occasion..and a dream that it could be your year....They are not interested whether it has a pot of gold at the end of it. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Burnie_man Posted May 11, 2018 Author Share Posted May 11, 2018 (edited) 9 minutes ago, BENJI BOY said: Your post sums up what every junior club supporter sees in the anticipation of the draw for this competition.. each round HAS a sense of occasion..and a dream that it could be your year....They are not interested whether it has a pot of gold at the end of it. The Junior Cup is a good day out if you get a draw to somewhere new outside your own Region. For 90% of clubs who have little chance of winning it that’s what it’s all about, that or a home tie against a biggie. The draws do have a sense of anticipation for that reason. The flip side is that it can cost clubs money to take part in it, all it takes is a couple of draws against North Region sides and suddenly you’re shelling out for buses or match guarantees (plus the SJFA take their cut of any gate money). We had that this season and if it wasn’t for a home tie against Linlithgow we would have lost money. I think Dunbar? found themselves in a similar situation and was it Islavale who refused to take part this season for fear of a financially crippling draw? There’s no money in the Junior Cup for the vast majority of clubs and for many it can cost money to take part. It’s not the Holy Grail some people think it is. Edited May 11, 2018 by Burnie_man 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cmontheloknow Posted May 11, 2018 Share Posted May 11, 2018 5 minutes ago, Burnie_man said: The Junior Cup is a good day out if you get a draw to somewhere new outside your own Region. For 90% of clubs who have little chance of winning it that’s what it’s all about, that or a home tie against a biggie. The draws do have a sense of anticipation for that reason. The flip side is that it can cost clubs money to take part in it, all it takes is a couple of draws against North Region sides and suddenly you’re shelling out for buses or match guarantees (plus the SJFA take their cut of any gate money). We had that this season and if it wasn’t for a home tie against Linlithgow we would have lost money. I think Dunbar? found themselves in a similar situation and was it Islavale who refused to take part this season for fear of a financially crippling draw? There’s no money in the Junior Cup for the vast majority of clubs and for many it can cost money to take part. It’s not the Holy Grail some people think it is. For the reasons you list, I would be in favour of any revised cup being regionalised in the early rounds. the negative of that is the reduced likelihood of smaller sides getting to the national rounds (say the last 64) which might reduce the appeal of it. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Burnie_man Posted May 11, 2018 Author Share Posted May 11, 2018 4 minutes ago, cmontheloknow said: For the reasons you list, I would be in favour of any revised cup being regionalised in the early rounds. the negative of that is the reduced likelihood of smaller sides getting to the national rounds (say the last 64) which might reduce the appeal of it. Agree, regionalising the early rounds would be the sensible way forward - and perhaps the only way - if it is to survive in the new world with an increased amount of clubs (equally applicable to an entirely new competition), but it would take the edge off the early round draws. Flip side it would maybe make the last 64 (or 32) a bigger achievement for those smaller clubs who rarely progress beyond the first couple of rounds. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.