Junior football, what is the future?

[Gordon EF]

1 hour ago, Spyro said:

That’s got to be a wind-up? I wasn’t brought up as a junior follower at all but I was well aware of who some of the teams were. Surely a Scottish sports reporter must have known this?!

Most Scottish sports reporters think there's only two clubs in Scotland, to be fair.

[Ginaro]

1 hour ago, Spyro said:

That’s got to be a wind-up? I wasn’t brought up as a junior follower at all but I was well aware of who some of the teams were. Surely a Scottish sports reporter must have known this?!

She's not a sports reporter. Which is part of the problem with the name, if those outside of the Junior bubble don't know what it means.

[Hillonearth]

1 hour ago, Ginaro said:

She's not a sports reporter. Which is part of the problem with the name, if those outside of the Junior bubble don't know what it means.

There’s every likelihood she’s grown up never having heard the term. We’re all invested in the goings-on at our clubs, but it’s arrogance to assume anything other than the truth, which is we’re a very small niche corner of the Scottish game.

Out of 120-odd people who work where I do, we’ve got me, a Beith fan who goes to games, a St Mirren fan who goes to the odd Johnstone Burgh game, a Thistle fan who’ll occasionally turn up at Lochburn and a Celtic fan who follows Shettleston’s results but hasn’t been to a game for years.

I would say that’s probably par for the course. Anyone outside that lot might have a dim awareness of a local team that plays near them or might recognise a couple of club’s names, but that’s as far as it goes.

And yeah, the name is confusing. I’ve mentioned on here before an ex of mine who was a schoolteacher and suggested I should come and watch her school’s team play if I was into junior football. “Non-league” isn’t much better it has to be said…I used the term to my missus, who then asked why I’d just come back from watching us playing a league game that afternoon…

[GNU_Linux]

Interesting piece in yesterday's Largs Thistle programme re: the pyramid that echoes alot of my own sentiment.

[wow-wee]

22 minutes ago, GNU_Linux said:

Interesting piece in yesterday's Largs Thistle programme re: the pyramid that echoes alot of my own sentiment.

A great article well written and spot on about our game . I know it's nothing to do with largs but an editors point of view but we can see where the club see their future. Hopefully more top West club's start making some noise and send a message to the West region and the sjfa that they better deliver or I can see a breakaway league and that won't help anyone.

Edited August 25, 2019 by wow-wee

[Ginaro]

I was surprised when I saw Largs had an artificial pitch but no floodlights as the two usually go together, wonder how close they would be to a licence if they installed lights?

[Robert James]

On 25/08/2019 at 16:11, GNU_Linux said:

Interesting piece in yesterday's Largs Thistle programme re: the pyramid that echoes alot of my own sentiment.

A very good article, and food for thought.

The "dissenting opinion" on 7th September, will be interesting to read. 

[Inanimate Carbon Rod]

Dissenting opinion will be something like ‘iTs ThE wAy ItS aLwAyS bEeN’.

[Sunrise]

On 25/08/2019 at 16:52, Ginaro said:

I was surprised when I saw Largs had an artificial pitch but no floodlights as the two usually go together, wonder how close they would be to a licence if they installed lights?

Lights were barely a thing in junior fitba in 2012 tbf!

[Robert James]

3 hours ago, Inanimate Carbon Rod said:

Dissenting opinion will be something like ‘iTs ThE wAy ItS aLwAyS bEeN’.

Does this mean that junior club Banks O'Dee will retain their "protected" SFA Membership, or will the club be required to "commit to the pyramid" , by joining the HFL  in 2020/21?

 

[Inanimate Carbon Rod]

Does this mean that junior club Banks O'Dee will retain their "protected" SFA Membership, or will the club be required to "commit to the pyramid" , by joining the HFL  in 2020/21?
 

If the north votes to stay junior then yeh they should be made to commit to one or the other.

[LongTimeLurker]

They got in at the same time as Linlithgow Rose did, so the commitment to progression angle might not be applicable in their case, because it was added when their application was already at a very advanced stage.

[Marten]

1 hour ago, LongTimeLurker said:

They got in at the same time as Linlithgow Rose did, so the commitment to progression angle might not be applicable in their case, because it was added when their application was already at a very advanced stage.

Linlithgow got told that they could be told at some moment to join the pyramid and lose their license if they refuse that. I would assume the same rule goes for BoD.

[Bestsinceslicebread]

5 hours ago, Inanimate Carbon Rod said:

If the north votes to stay junior then yeh they should be made to commit to one or the other.

This post is so big is hard to find out reality, the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth and what's false

Anyways, Inanimate Carbon Rod, I don't get this North juniors voting to stay junior or West, East voting to stay junior or your comment 'made to commit' to junior or 'senior'. Every club is independent and thus should make up their own minds if and when they decide to leave or stay. A club can decide to apply to become a member of the seniors every year, am I correct?. Even if they apply, it does not mean they will be accepted.

Well if a team continues in the junior ranks each start of the season they then have to commit as they cant leave half way through so that's fine.
Every season some clubs come into a bit of money, sponsorship etc... which means their outlook and spending may change, so yes they should be allowed to change their status anytime they want as long as they fall into the correct criteria for any of the levels, Junior or senior. There are many reasons why clubs are staying in the junior ranks and there are many reason why team are staying in the seniors.

I don't speak for Clydebank nor its fans I guess from only my online experience and when I worked with Clydebank Soccer Academy, (last year), that most fans and committee want to go senior, I guess they are waiting for the best solution and right time that is suited to them. No team should be forced to stay at a level if they have asperations to become a bigger club, (not saying that would work if they or any other team leave the junior ranks)

Only a sample of reasons why clubs stay but there are so many reasons

Clubs will stay junior because they love the juniors,
Clubs will stay junior as they have no asperations to go to a senior level or a pyramid system
Clubs will stay junior if they believe they cannot afford to go to the senior level, (SFA requirements).
Clubs stay juniors are they believe the set up if moving to the seniors will not suit them travelling, as in too much.
 

There are many reasons why teams are staying in the juniors or staying in the seniors. If a club leaves the junior ranks and joins the seniors and after 5 years it doesn't work out for them and they want to come back to the juniors, would you stop them, I know I wouldn't.

No club should be forced to stay junior

If every club in the junior ranks, North, South and West decide next year , all of a sudden to join the senior ranks. What will happen to the Juniors FA, the organisers, they will all be out of a job, so yes its in the JFA's interest that if most teams want to go senior to join as a whole and they organise it then good chance they will be in a  job, because someone has to control and look after each level etc...  Sorry but I don't see any other reason why the 'North' junior organisers or 'West' organisers or 'East' organisers for that matter would have an all out vote to stay junior or senior expect they can organise and keep everyone  within their own control, remit.

 

Edited August 27, 2019 by Bestsinceslicebread

[Jason King]

41 minutes ago, Bestsinceslicebread said:

 

Clubs stay juniors are they believe the set up if moving to the seniors will not suit them travelling, as in too much.

 

If any club committee seriously believes that then they deserve to be left behind.

Joining the senior pyramid, for clubs in the West, doesn't mean you suddenly are playing Montrose Roselea away every other week - for most clubs nothing will change, they'll be in a league with the same teams they are currently in a league with and for the vast majority this will remain the same for decades to come.

[Bestsinceslicebread]

19 minutes ago, Jason King said:

If any club committee seriously believes that then they deserve to be left behind.

Joining the senior pyramid, for clubs in the West, doesn't mean you suddenly are playing Montrose Roselea away every other week - for most clubs nothing will change, they'll be in a league with the same teams they are currently in a league with and for the vast majority this will remain the same for decades to come.

Hey Jason, common to feck,

Do you honestly think every fecking committee are at the same level and thought process, no they are not, they are good ones and they are bad ones. I'm talking not just the west but the east. I was at 5 grounds last year of the East of Scotland juniors and spoke to quite a few committee members at their games and at 3 clubs, most, (1 f the clubs I chatted to 3 members),  didn't have a clue about the seniors and what was required and they said they are all staying in the junior ranks - basically ignorance.  There's junior clubs that have sold their grounds and got bad deals, why because the committee do not know the full ins and outs and yeah, im talking about Benburb as one of those teams.
Right now if a west club joined the senior ranks, they would most likely be in either the 'EOS' or the 'WOS', correct or not, thus they think they will be a lot of travelling, in retrospect I don't think that much travelling but some journeys they would not want to partake now if there was a west league then a team from the west are more likely to join

They will be in the same league with the seam teams if they whole league moves over to the seniors of the SFA get auff their stupid asses and just start a WOS section in the pyramid system.

My post above was about all the juniors and not just West
Anyhoos the whole problem, correct me if I'm wrong if the travelling stuff in the North dividing line, some want in the east senior but would be moved to the north or visa versa. Not sure as I haven't looked into it fully but that seems to be the main problem, so travelling for many is an issue.

Edited August 27, 2019 by Bestsinceslicebread

[AlanCamelonfan]

40 minutes ago, Bestsinceslicebread said:

Hey Jason, common to feck,

Do you honestly think every fecking committee are at the same level and thought process, no they are not, they are good ones and they are bad ones. I'm talking not just the west but the east. I was at 5 grounds last year of the East of Scotland juniors and spoke to quite a few committee members at their games and at 3 clubs, most, (1 f the clubs I chatted to 3 members),  didn't have a clue about the seniors and what was required and they said they are all staying in the junior ranks - basically ignorance.  There's junior clubs that have sold their grounds and got bad deals, why because the committee do not know the full ins and outs and yeah, im talking about Benburb as one of those teams.
Right now if a west club joined the senior ranks, they would most likely be in either the 'EOS' or the 'WOS', correct or not, thus they think they will be a lot of travelling, in retrospect I don't think that much travelling but some journeys they would not want to partake now if there was a west league then a team from the west are more likely to join

They will be in the same league with the seam teams if they whole league moves over to the seniors of the SFA get auff their stupid asses and just start a WOS section in the pyramid system.

My post above was about all the juniors and not just West
Anyhoos the whole problem, correct me if I'm wrong if the travelling stuff in the North dividing line, some want in the east senior but would be moved to the north or visa versa. Not sure as I haven't looked into it fully but that seems to be the main problem, so travelling for many is an issue.

Our travelling reduced in the East Premier than it was in the EAst SUper league

[LongTimeLurker]

7 hours ago, Inanimate Carbon Rod said:

If the north votes to stay junior then yeh they should be made to commit to one or the other.

I'm not sure that's really what's happening up north. The Highland League have stated that they plan to keep a single division if they have up to 20 clubs and split into two divisions thereafter. Right now they have 17 clubs and there are only two other licensed clubs north of the Tay boundary, Golspie Sutherland and Banks o' Dee. The former are not eligible for Highland League membership because they have no floodlights (which probably means that they will lose their licensing soon) and the latter are not hugely keen on moving but might become the HL's 18th club next season. As things stand any junior club that wants to get licensed can and should in theory be able to join the HL upon doing so. Until there are significantly more than 20 licensed clubs available north of the Tay there is no need for a promotion and relegation mechanism to and from the HL and the NRSJFA can putter along doing its own thing for now without necessarily being opposed to the pyramid in principle.

Edited August 27, 2019 by LongTimeLurker

[Bestsinceslicebread]

j

  1 hour ago, Bestsinceslicebread said:

Hey Jason, common to feck,

Do you honestly think every fecking committee are at the same level and thought process, no they are not, they are good ones and they are bad ones. I'm talking not just the west but the east. I was at 5 grounds last year of the East of Scotland juniors and spoke to quite a few committee members at their games and at 3 clubs, most, (1 f the clubs I chatted to 3 members),  didn't have a clue about the seniors and what was required and they said they are all staying in the junior ranks - basically ignorance.  There's junior clubs that have sold their grounds and got bad deals, why because the committee do not know the full ins and outs and yeah, im talking about Benburb as one of those teams.
Right now if a west club joined the senior ranks, they would most likely be in either the 'EOS' or the 'WOS', correct or not, thus they think they will be a lot of travelling, in retrospect I don't think that much travelling but some journeys they would not want to partake now if there was a west league then a team from the west are more likely to join

They will be in the same league with the seam teams if they whole league moves over to the seniors of the SFA get auff their stupid asses and just start a WOS section in the pyramid system.

My post above was about all the juniors and not just West
Anyhoos the whole problem, correct me if I'm wrong if the travelling stuff in the North dividing line, some want in the east senior but would be moved to the north or visa versa. Not sure as I haven't looked into it fully but that seems to be the main problem, so travelling for many is an issue.

45 minutes ago, AlanCamelonfan said:

Our travelling reduced in the East Premier than it was in the EAst SUper league

j

 

Every club will make out of it going senior and some wont, the same for some staying junior.
Alan, That's great for your club and I'm happy but there is already an east senior league thus if a junior east team joins the Seniors then hopefully not a lot of travelling but the comments from the committee members I spoke to at the end of last season stated one of those for a reason.  Its a bit different from West clubs as there is no West senior league so some are skeptical but not too much travelling, I don't think. and reading Longtimes post there's problems when and if its worth jumping to the North league for some.

Most on this thread have thought about their own team and the benefits and quite rightly so but the SFA must think of it all as a whole.  Every junior team, and amateur, for that matter should be allowed to apply for Senior status if they so wish. if they fit the criteria then great, if not then they wont be allowed entry.
The SFA could help sort one problem by just starting a fekcing WOS league at the tier equivalent with the EOS, so if 5 teams joins or 10 teams or 20 teams at least there's a WOS league and I'm sure more will follow.

As I said the committee who usually run a team are all at different levels of their capability in working out and coming to the right decisions.  FFs I was with a junior team and the chairman was unemployed yet he went to the bookies nearly every day spending over £50 a day, work that one out. I wonder how the chairman and committee conducted their decision making and thought process.

Edited August 27, 2019 by Bestsinceslicebread

[Guest]

Can we be clear that joining the pyramid, as of right now, does not mean you have to become sfa licensed. That is only applicable if you play at tier 5 in the Lowland League. Every west and east junior side will come in at tier 6, sfa licence is only required to play in the LL.

 

Travel will be the same (particularly for the west) as the leagues will most likely port over as is. Travel would only become an issue at tier 5 or above and again, probably wouldnt be that much different for most clubs.

 

Clubs simply not wanting to join is another issue. I dont buy the 'make clubs choose one or the other' argument tbh. I'm a big suprter of the pyramid and want all non league clubs (junior clubs inclusive) playing in the same set up. That being said there will be clubs who simply don't want to move over, that is fine for me, stay junior and keep playing in the sjfa. This is an individual club decision.