A Photographic History Of Scottish Football

[Andy_K_97]

On 25/10/2023 at 13:11, tamthebam said:

As this pish has reached page 666 here is a picture of Rugby Park in the old days

there's nothing particularly satanic about Kilmarnock FC (awaits replies from Honest Men fans) but in the late 1980s there used to be an ambulance man on duty there with the serial number 666. He had a wee goatie beard and every time he walked past the Meadowbank support when we played there we shouted "SATAN" and pointed at him. 

On this note, Killie's X/Twitter shared this image from around a similar time earlier today:

I bowl at Portland BC which is only a stone's throw from RP, and inside there's a great photo which shows the bowling club, RP and streets of the town. Other than the cars on the streets, the odd home renovation and the stadium being rebuilt along with the hotel springing up where the old training pitches were, not that much has really changed in the past 40 odd years.

[tamthebam]

On 24/10/2023 at 14:01, Otis Blue said:

Noticed this on the BBC website today ... bit of an embarrassing faux pas there lassies, n'est ce pas? ...

A popular K-Pop band appears to have made a mix-up by donning retro Rangers tops at a show in Texas.

STAYC were performing in Dallas as part of their US tour.

But instead of wearing local baseball team Texas Ranger's tops, the girl group appeared in 1990s kits worn by Glasgow Rangers.

 

I expect to see the Green Brigade waving The Democratic People's Republic of Korea flags at the next game.

 

[Le Tout P'ti FC]

From the Fiver - that time Denis Law played for the Rest of the World XI (when that selection probably meant something).

 

[Boghead ranter]

Edited October 27, 2023 by Boghead ranter

[Boghead ranter]

[Molotov]

20 hours ago, Le Tout P'ti FC said:

From the Fiver - that time Denis Law played for the Rest of the World XI (when that selection probably meant something).

 

Jim Baxter was also in the squad and played in the second half:

Referee was Scottish : Bob Davidson (Airdrie - Section B)

[Eednud]

Reporting 1928 style by the Arbroath Herald. Queen of the South 0 Arbroath 3 (28/10;1928). Full report Arbroath Archive https://www.arbroatharchive.co.uk/matchdetails.php?id=3669

 

[Boghead ranter]

[Boghead ranter]

[Lurkst]

100 years ago yesterday Dundee Hibernian played their first game as Dundee United, bizarrely changing their name mid season...

[Monkey Tennis]

59 minutes ago, Lurkst said:

100 years ago yesterday Dundee Hibernian played their first game as Dundee United, bizarrely changing their name mid season...

That's fascinating.  

I'd no idea that Dundee had a say in any name change, or that 'Dundee City' had been proposed as a name.  The emphatic desire to ditch the Hibernian name is also interesting.

I find it odd that Dundee apparently had strong objections to 'City' yet were fine with 'United'.  It must have felt like there were significant differences in the message conveyed by the respective words.  I'm struggling to really see them though.

Edited October 28, 2023 by Monkey Tennis

[Sergeant Wilson]

51 minutes ago, Monkey Tennis said:

That's fascinating.  

I'd no idea that Dundee had a say in any name change, or that 'Dundee City' had been proposed as a name.  The emphatic desire to ditch the Hibernian name is also interesting.

I find it odd that Dundee apparently had strong objections to 'City' yet we're fine with 'United'.  It must have felt like there were significant differences in the message conveyed by the respective words.  I'm struggling to really see them though.

@Granny Dangerwill explain why, he  was there.

Edited October 28, 2023 by Sergeant Wilson

[Dundee Hibernian]

1 hour ago, Monkey Tennis said:

That's fascinating.  

I'd no idea that Dundee had a say in any name change, or that 'Dundee City' had been proposed as a name.  The emphatic desire to ditch the Hibernian name is also interesting.

I find it odd that Dundee apparently had strong objections to 'City' yet were fine with 'United'.  It must have felt like there were significant differences in the message conveyed by the respective words.  I'm struggling to really see them though.

As I recall (from reading might I emphasise) it was the Dundee chairman who came up with the compromise name of Dundee United. 

[Monkey Tennis]

3 minutes ago, Dundee Hibernian said:

As I recall (from reading might I emphasise) it was the Dundee chairman who came up with the compromise name of Dundee United. 

Why did it represent a compromise though?  To me, it doesn't sound much worse than Dundee City from a rival's point of view. 

[Lurkst]

53 minutes ago, Monkey Tennis said:

Why did it represent a compromise though?  To me, it doesn't sound much worse than Dundee City from a rival's point of view. 

Maybe they felt "City" would then appear to be the premier club in the city of Dundee? 

[Monkey Tennis]

55 minutes ago, Lurkst said:

Maybe they felt "City" would then appear to be the premier club in the city of Dundee? 

Yes, I can only imagine that's the logic.

I still think it's a funny sort of objection though.  "City" is pretty underused in Scotland.

 

The bit saying "They were willing to adopt any name so long as the word Hibs went out" is intriguing too. 

Maybe I'm reading too much into the wording of the report, but it does sound like the club was desperate to drop the Irish association.  I wonder why this was so strongly the case.  Obviously, there was no such eagerness for the clubs with similar roots in Glasgow and Edinburgh.  

Does anyone know any more on this?   I'm particularly interested because my Dad, from a very Catholic Dundee family (his younger sister was a nun for Goodness' sake) was born in 1939 and is a Dundee fan, as were his pals.

I know that United were much the smaller club until probably around the 1970s, but I find the whole football dynamic in the city interesting.  

 

[Dundee Hibernian]

4 hours ago, Monkey Tennis said:

Why did it represent a compromise though?  To me, it doesn't sound much worse than Dundee City from a rival's point of view. 

3 hours ago, Lurkst said:

Maybe they felt "City" would then appear to be the premier club in the city of Dundee? 

Although I'm thinking that was a tongue in cheek dig  (it's only temporary!), I reckon that is the reason, from my recall of reading the excellent “Across the Great Divide” by Jim Wilkie. It was updated in 2012, originally published in 1984. It’s subtitled ‘A Historyof Professional Football in Dundee’, and that original print is lost somewhere in my house.

Therefore stuff below is from my memory.

2 hours ago, Monkey Tennis said:

Yes, I can only imagine that's the logic.

I still think it's a funny sort of objection though.  "City" is pretty underused in Scotland.

 

The bit saying "They were willing to adopt any name so long as the word Hibs went out" is intriguing too. 

Maybe I'm reading too much into the wording of the report, but it does sound like the club was desperate to drop the Irish association.  I wonder why this was so strongly the case.  Obviously, there was no such eagerness for the clubs with similar roots in Glasgow and Edinburgh.  

Does anyone know any more on this?   I'm particularly interested because my Dad, from a very Catholic Dundee family (his younger sister was a nun for Goodness' sake) was born in 1939 and is a Dundee fan, as were his pals.

I know that United were much the smaller club until probably around the 1970s, but I find the whole football dynamic in the city interesting.  

 

Dundee Hibs looked to change their name to Dundee City Athletic Club, rather than 'Football Club'. And there had been a previous Dundee United, and another Dundee, neither with a connection to the present clubs, away back in the 1870s.

The Hibs board reps at the SFA meeting were tasked with removing 'Hibernian' from the name, simply due to the anti-Irish or anti-Catholic (delete as you might) sentiment following the formation of the Irish Free State in 1922. 

Again, I recall from Jim Wilkie's book, he emphasised that Dundee Hibernian (nor Dundee) was never a sectarian club, rather one to represent the tens of thousands of Irish who had moved to the city, many to look for employment in the burgeoning jute industry. The first line up in 1909 had been composed of 6 Roman Catholics and 5 Protestants.

That’s not to say that a small minority of fans tried to stoke up religious tensions at times, but I’ll leave that there right now.

The meeting mentioned above, which took place during the season, followed many weeks of wrangling where the Dundee board steadfastly disagreed to a name change to City, and as the much more influential club, they refused to support the Tannadice side in their efforts to join the Scottish League: they had finished second bottom of League 2 in 1921-22, with the bottom two being cut out of the league system due to league reconstruction.

For one season the played in the Scottish Alliance League, before seeking re-election for season 1923-24 as Dundee City (Athletic). As mentioned above, Dundee didn’t want that name used, and refused to offer support to the re-election bid.

It was Dundee director, Willian McIntosh, that suggested Dundee United, and McIntosh and a partner, George Greig, saved the club from extinction 10 years later, in the ‘thirties. George Greig was a tobacconist in the city and helped the club financially once more a few years later, as a club director.

So there it is (as I recall): a Dundee director named the club 'Dundee United', and the DHFC representatives, desperate to avoid the stigma some potential customers may have attached to the Hibs name, were only to happy to accept the advised name, or call themselves City and remain as outcasts from the Scottish Leagues.

 

[Dundee Hibernian]

Forgot to add this above, as this is a 'photographic history'

[Monkey Tennis]

4 minutes ago, Dundee Hibernian said:

Although I'm thinking that was a tongue in cheek dig  (it's only temporary!), I reckon that is the reason, from my recall of reading the excellent “Across the Great Divide” by Jim Wilkie. It was updated in 2012, originally published in 1984. It’s subtitled ‘A Historyof Professional Football in Dundee’, and that original print is lost somewhere in my house.

Therefore stuff below is from my memory.

Dundee Hibs looked to change their name to Dundee City Athletic Club, rather than 'Football Club'. And there had been a previous Dundee United, and another Dundee, neither with a connection to the present clubs, away back in the 1870s.

The Hibs board reps at the SFA meeting were tasked with removing 'Hibernian' from the name, simply due to the anti-Irish or anti-Catholic (delete as you might) sentiment following the formation of the Irish Free State in 1922. 

Again, I recall from Jim Wilkie's book, he emphasised that Dundee Hibernian (nor Dundee) was never a sectarian club, rather one to represent the tens of thousands of Irish who had moved to the city, many to look for employment in the burgeoning jute industry. The first line up in 1909 had been composed of 6 Roman Catholics and 5 Protestants.

That’s not to say that a small minority of fans tried to stoke up religious tensions at times, but I’ll leave that there right now.

The meeting mentioned above, which took place during the season, followed many weeks of wrangling where the Dundee board steadfastly disagreed to a name change to City, and as the much more influential club, they refused to support the Tannadice side in their efforts to join the Scottish League: they had finished second bottom of League 2 in 1921-22, with the bottom two being cut out of the league system due to league reconstruction.

For one season the played in the Scottish Alliance League, before seeking re-election for season 1923-24 as Dundee City (Athletic). As mentioned above, Dundee didn’t want that name used, and refused to offer support to the re-election bid.

It was Dundee director, Willian McIntosh, that suggested Dundee United, and McIntosh and a partner, George Greig, saved the club from extinction 10 years later, in the ‘thirties. George Greig was a tobacconist in the city and helped the club financially once more a few years later, as a club director.

So there it is (as I recall): a Dundee director named the club 'Dundee United', and the DHFC representatives, desperate to avoid the stigma some potential customers may have attached to the Hibs name, were only to happy to accept the advised name, or call themselves City and remain as outcasts from the Scottish Leagues.

 

Thank you.

I think my dad has that book and I read it in the dim and distant past.  I'll try to dig it out. 

The fact that Hibs/United were lobbying for league status at the time, helps explain why Dundee had some leverage I suppose.

[Dundee Hibernian]

I'm just thinking, William McIntosh missed a substantial open goal when his suggested name for Dundee Hibernian's 'makeover' was accepted.