chopface Posted October 28, 2023 Share Posted October 28, 2023 On 27/10/2023 at 14:27, Eednud said: Reporting 1928 style by the Arbroath Herald. Queen of the South 0 Arbroath 3 (28/10;1928). Full report Arbroath Archive https://www.arbroatharchive.co.uk/matchdetails.php?id=3669 Strange to call them QotS Wanderers when they had, as far a I'm aware, no actual links to the defunct Wanderers. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eednud Posted October 29, 2023 Share Posted October 29, 2023 (edited) On 29/10/2023 at 09:48, Dundee Hibernian said: I'm just thinking, William McIntosh missed a substantial open goal when his suggested name for Dundee Hibernian's 'makeover' was accepted. Just had a look at the chapter in the 1984 edition of “Across The Great Divide” and it seems the Dundee City name might have been approved by the SFA on 19/9/1923 had 2 of the SFA Committee in favour of the name change not sought to leave early and one of them ended up missing his train anyway. The casting vote of Chairman T White of Celtic went against Hibs proposal. 31 days later they were United. Didn’t realise they played their first game as Dundee United was a 3-2 away win at King’s Park on 20 October followed by a 0-3 loss at Dumbarton on 27 October with their first home game a 3-2 against St Bernard’s on 3 November. ETA: The King’s Park game was the last as Dundee Hibs according to Rags to Ritchie’s The official history of Dundee United by Mike Watson published in 1985. Edited October 30, 2023 by Eednud 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monkey Tennis Posted October 29, 2023 Share Posted October 29, 2023 6 hours ago, chopface said: Strange to call them QotS Wanderers when they had, as far a I'm aware, no actual links to the defunct Wanderers. Correct. A QoS Wanderers had come to an end in 1894, but the team beaten here by Arbroath well over 30 years later was founded in 1919 by the merging of 3 totally different sides. I think I've read that 'United' was tacked onto the end of our name at the founding meeting, but had disappeared (presumably on the basis that it was already long enough) by the time we played any matches. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PossilYM Posted October 29, 2023 Share Posted October 29, 2023 Another school day. Never knew Dundee Hibs changed their name mid season. Or maybe forced to change their name. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eednud Posted October 29, 2023 Share Posted October 29, 2023 2 hours ago, Monkey Tennis said: Correct. A QoS Wanderers had come to an end in 1894, but the team beaten here by Arbroath well over 30 years later was founded in 1919 by the merging of 3 totally different sides. I think I've read that 'United' was tacked onto the end of our name at the founding meeting, but had disappeared (presumably on the basis that it was already long enough) by the time we played any matches. They had met 6 times before the game in that report and it looks as though it is “Savant”:who was the culprit as only 2 or 3 reports without his name didn’t mention Wanderers. he eventually got it right for a 1-1 draw at Gayfield in 1930/31. Didn’t look at any reports after that. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jagfox Posted October 29, 2023 Share Posted October 29, 2023 Interesting wee film showing Thistle build up to a match in 1976. https://discover.bbcrewind.co.uk/asset/628547ea4b0a950023598c58 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monkey Tennis Posted October 29, 2023 Share Posted October 29, 2023 54 minutes ago, jagfox said: Interesting wee film showing Thistle build up to a match in 1976. https://discover.bbcrewind.co.uk/asset/628547ea4b0a950023598c58 I quite enjoyed that. I know we're talking about a different time, but the idea of a top ten club being part-time, while my full-time team is currently pissing about in the lower reaches of the third tier, is pretty striking. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ScottyDee1893 Posted October 29, 2023 Share Posted October 29, 2023 20 hours ago, Monkey Tennis said: Maybe I'm reading too much into the wording of the report, but it does sound like the club was desperate to drop the Irish association. I wonder why this was so strongly the case. Obviously, there was no such eagerness for the clubs with similar roots in Glasgow and Edinburgh. Does anyone know any more on this? I'm particularly interested because my Dad, from a very Catholic Dundee family (his younger sister was a nun for Goodness' sake) was born in 1939 and is a Dundee fan, as were his pals. I can't answer your question with any evidence to back it up but I'd like to think it was a result of the BOD of the Tannadice club wanting to appeal to more than just the large Irish immigrant population who were largely employed in the city's jute mills. IMO it was the only way to grow the club albeit it took another 50 plus years to make inroads into Dundee's dominance in terms of the numbers supporting the respective clubs. I'm 62 and can honestly say that I have never met a Dundee or United supporter that chose to support either club on the grounds of religion. I'm not saying that there may be isolated cases where it has been but I've never came across any personally. I've quite a lot of Catholic mates who are Dark Blue through and through and Protestant pals who are red hot Arabs. Born in 1939 your Dad would have been 10 when Dundee infamously blew the chance of winning the Scottish championship courtesy of a final day defeat at Brockville when a draw would have won the league. In the next few years he would witness back to back League Cup wins, a Scottish Cup runners up, high placings in the league and huge crowds. Little wonder he and his mates chose to go to Dens instead of Tannadice. 7 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monkey Tennis Posted October 29, 2023 Share Posted October 29, 2023 1 hour ago, ScottyDee1893 said: Born in 1939 your Dad would have been 10 when Dundee infamously blew the chance of winning the Scottish championship courtesy of a final day defeat at Brockville when a draw would have won the league. In the next few years he would witness back to back League Cup wins, a Scottish Cup runners up, high placings in the league and huge crowds. Little wonder he and his mates chose to go to Dens instead of Tannadice. Yeah, he hates it when you call him a success supporter. They won the league in the year he married my mum. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dundee Hibernian Posted October 29, 2023 Share Posted October 29, 2023 3 hours ago, ScottyDee1893 said: I'm 62 and can honestly say that I have never met a Dundee or United supporter that chose to support either club on the grounds of religion. I'm not saying that there may be isolated cases where it has been but I've never came across any personally. I've quite a lot of Catholic mates who are Dark Blue through and through and Protestant pals who are red hot Arabs. I concur, to the extent that on occasions when I travel by bus to matches, I couldn't tell you the religion anyone on the bus. Apart, that is, from Father O'Brien, Rabbi Cohen, Reverend Dunbar and the Mullah. 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Le Tout P'ti FC Posted October 29, 2023 Share Posted October 29, 2023 Spotted on the wall of The Laurieston. It’s a letter from Jock Stein (Hibs Manager) to a Charlie McGuinness referencing his pending move to Celtic. History does not record whether that move prove to be a success or not, or what became of Mr Stein. I’m trying to find out who Mr McGuinness was. I can reveal that he was married to Mrs McGuinness and the letter appears to be dated in 1965. I’m having less luck with my cursory Googling trying to identify what the Celtic tribute to Mr McGarry pertained to. (I daresay his image wasn’t projected onto a huge screen whilst a club mascot in a furry costume with their head bowed clapped throughout a minute’s applause, as they didn’t know how to do respect back then.) 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HibeeJibee Posted October 29, 2023 Share Posted October 29, 2023 Looking back a century on it does seem rather bizarre that Dundee were implacably opposed to Dundee Hibs becoming Dundee City but fine with Dundee Utd. From what I've read their objection was built on the idea "Dundee City" misled people as to who were the principal team... remember Dundee Hibs were decidedly small beer: they'd dropped out of SFL in 1915, only got back in 1921 but immediately dropped out again, had only returned the season of the name switch and would not reach top tier for another 2yrs (and immediately went straight back down). So presumably Dundee thought "United" - despite its connotations - was comparatively non-threatening or perhaps even funny? Not anticipating they'd one day rival then eclipse them. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HibeeJibee Posted October 29, 2023 Share Posted October 29, 2023 65yrs ago: Opening of Palmerston floodlights Queen of the South 0-6 Preston North End 8,500 Illustrating what varied diet football involved back then other games that night included England v British Army, Irish League v League of Ireland, Oxford University v Royal Navy, Stockport County v RAF and Everton v Liverpool in 2nd leg of Liverpool Floodlight Cup Final, while the night before witnessed Chelsea v South Africa in a tour match to be followed by Aston Villa v GAIS Gothenburg and Leicester v Borussia Dortmund. 6 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HibeeJibee Posted October 30, 2023 Share Posted October 30, 2023 65yrs ago: Tour match Heart of Midlothian 3-3 South Africa 10,000 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eednud Posted October 30, 2023 Share Posted October 30, 2023 (edited) @Monkey Tennis and @Dundee Hibernian and anyone else interested. Don’t know why I didn’t dig this out before but these pages are from a 1985 book by Mike Watson “Rags to Riches” The Official History of Dundee United”. Hope they are legible. ETA order is pic 2, pic 1, pic 4, pic 3 Edited October 30, 2023 by Eednud 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PossilYM Posted October 30, 2023 Share Posted October 30, 2023 3 hours ago, Eednud said: @Monkey Tennis and @Dundee Hibernian and anyone else interested. Don’t know why I didn’t dig this out before but these pages are from a 1985 book by Mike Watson “Rags to Riches” The Official History of Dundee United”. Hope they are legible. ETA order is pic 2, pic 1, pic 4, pic 3 Only took United about another 60 years give or take to win a major trophy. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caledonian1 Posted October 30, 2023 Share Posted October 30, 2023 On 29/10/2023 at 08:33, jagfox said: Interesting wee film showing Thistle build up to a match in 1976. https://discover.bbcrewind.co.uk/asset/628547ea4b0a950023598c58 Thats fascinating. Unbelievable that Alan Rough was part-time and didnt even have a full time job - just did some promotional work for a sports shop now and then. He is interviewed and said that part-time football was no good for him - training two or three times a week and led him to put on weight that he just couldnt shift (lots of time just hanging around all week) The documentary does say he is unhappy with his part time status and that some English clubs were interested....wonder why he never moved? 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arch Stanton Posted October 30, 2023 Share Posted October 30, 2023 2 minutes ago, Caledonian1 said: Thats fascinating. Unbelievable that Alan Rough was part-time and didnt even have a full time job - just did some promotional work for a sports shop now and then. He is interviewed and said that part-time football was no good for him - training two or three times a week and led him to put on weight that he just couldnt shift (lots of time just hanging around all week) The documentary does say he is unhappy with his part time status and that some English clubs were interested....wonder why he never moved? He didn't move to England but did go FT with Hibs and Celtic. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caledonian1 Posted October 30, 2023 Share Posted October 30, 2023 33 minutes ago, Arch Stanton said: He didn't move to England but did go FT with Hibs and Celtic. Yes, but didnt move to Hibs until 6 years after this programme (at the age of 31) 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monkey Tennis Posted October 30, 2023 Share Posted October 30, 2023 7 hours ago, Caledonian1 said: The documentary does say he is unhappy with his part time status and that some English clubs were interested....wonder why he never moved? It's because he was hopeless. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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