BBC bias

[strichener]

6 hours ago, BawWatchin said:

Any economist would agree with me. Clearly you're not one of them and thinks the economy is just going to suddenly stop one day, despite the fact that people are the economy and it would make zero sense for people to cause it to stop.

Nobody is claiming that the economy would stop.  Recession and long term decline are both possibilities.  

If only there were previous instances of where industries shut down and led to long term issues relating to poverty and health.  Aren't we lucky that this has never happened and all economic activity is replaced with something equal.  

The loss of industrial capability on the West Coast should be a lesson to anyone silly enough to write off unemployment as a temporary issue.

[BawWatchin]

4 hours ago, strichener said:

Nobody is claiming that the economy would stop.  Recession and long term decline are both possibilities.  

If only there were previous instances of where industries shut down and led to long term issues relating to poverty and health.  Aren't we lucky that this has never happened and all economic activity is replaced with something equal.  

The loss of industrial capability on the West Coast should be a lesson to anyone silly enough to write off unemployment as a temporary issue.

Recessions are completely avoidable. They occur when confidence in the economy is low. People spend less, so companies make less money, resulting in the lay off of staff, which means people have less money to spend and it forms a cycle.

As long as people keep spending money, there will be jobs available and money to be earned. Recessions are driven purely by ideology.

Also are you suggesting that the loss of industry on the West Coast has resulted in permanent unemployment?

Edited October 11, 2020 by BawWatchin

[DiegoDiego]

Recessions are driven purely by ideology.

Aye, never by war, pandemics, Ponzi schemes or bubbles.

[BawWatchin]

2 hours ago, DiegoDiego said:

Aye, never by war, pandemics, Ponzi schemes or bubbles.

These factors are not the direct cause. Productivity doesn't have to go down for any of these reasons. 

[DiegoDiego]

These factors are not the direct cause. Productivity doesn't have to go down for any of these reasons. 

So when half of Europe died of the plague the lucky ones just needed to work twice as hard?

When Ghenghis Khan rolls into town and kills all your menfolk the housewives should just retrain as merchants?

When most of your nation goes into debt investing in dodgy financial schemes the key for them is simply to spend some imaginary money they don't have?

[BawWatchin]

17 hours ago, DiegoDiego said:

So when half of Europe died of the plague the lucky ones just needed to work twice as hard?

When there are less people, there are less demands and less job requirements. The size of an economy adjusts to the size of the population on which the economy is based on. 

17 hours ago, DiegoDiego said:

When Ghenghis Khan rolls into town and kills all your menfolk the housewives should just retrain as merchants?

Smaller population, less merchants required. 

17 hours ago, DiegoDiego said:

When most of your nation goes into debt investing in dodgy financial schemes the key for them is simply to spend some imaginary money they don't have?

That's exactly what happens. 

[BawWatchin]

2 minutes ago, Detournement said:

I doubt they will be as keen to make boundary changes on the basis of the upcoming census as they were to do it on a seven year old version. 

Sadly I don't see any change to pensioners being the dominant electoral force. With new cohorts of pensioners generally having better diets, more exercise, less alcohol and smoking and more reliant on index linked pensions things are likely to get worse.

Free vodka and Richmonds for all over 75s.

[strichener]

49 minutes ago, BawWatchin said:

When there are less people, there are less demands and less job requirements. The size of an economy adjusts to the size of the population on which the economy is based on. 

Smaller population, less merchants required. 

That's exactly what happens. 

So you finally see that it is not always ideology that drives recessions.

[BawWatchin]

9 minutes ago, strichener said:

So you finally see that it is not always ideology that drives recessions.

Well yes, it is.

Recessions occur when there isn't enough business to meet demand. This only happens when confidence is low in the economy. It's not directly caused by anything else. As long as there is confidence in the economy, the economy will continue to function normally, regardless of anything else going on.

If a country loses half of it's population as a result of war, pandemic or any other reason, then it only requires half the level of business that it needed previously to meet the needs of it's population. 

It's fear and low levels of confidence triggered by such events which ultimately result in recession. Not the events themselves, but peoples emotional reactions to them.

[coprolite]

18 minutes ago, BawWatchin said:

Well yes, it is.

Recessions occur when there isn't enough business to meet demand. This only happens when confidence is low in the economy. It's not directly caused by anything else. As long as there is confidence in the economy, the economy will continue to function normally, regardless of anything else going on.

If a country loses half of it's population as a result of war, pandemic or any other reason, then it only requires half the level of business that it needed previously to meet the needs of it's population. 

It's fear and low levels of confidence triggered by such events which ultimately result in recession. Not the events themselves, but peoples emotional reactions to them.

Not only a gross oversimplification of a phenomenon that has had multiple interrelated causes over the years, but also a complete non sequitir in relation to your point. 

On your point, at a high level i agree with it. Recession is a feature of the business cycle and to have a business cycle you need some sort of market economy. You can't have a recession in a fully planned economy.  That says nothing about the causes of a recession within a market economy. 

[strichener]

2 hours ago, BawWatchin said:

Recessions occur when there isn't enough business to meet demand.

Seriously?  Not enough business to meet demand results in recessions?  I really will have to undertake re-education as my understanding of economics has just been blown out the water with this revelation.

[Jambomo]

I like that the SNP have got a party political broadcast for Indy in ahead of Boris Johnson’s appearance. Surprised the BBC ran it tbh.

[BawWatchin]

1 hour ago, strichener said:

Seriously?  Not enough business to meet demand results in recessions?

Yes. That's what a recession is and it's entirely avoidable.

[strichener]

13 hours ago, BawWatchin said:

Yes. That's what a recession is and it's entirely avoidable.

It's really not.  I cannot think of a single economist that would attribute a recession to insufficient supply, it is the exact opposite - lack of demand.

[DeeTillEhDeh]

It's really not.  I cannot think of a single economist that would attribute a recession to insufficient supply, it is the exact opposite - lack of demand.

 

I think you are confusing symptoms of a recession (a fall in aggregate demand) with the causes of recession. The causes can be supply-side attributed:  

 

Supply-side shock, e.g. rise in oil prices cause inflation and lower spending power. (e.g. in 1970s).

 

 

Black swan event – this is an unexpected event that is very hard to predict. For example, Covid-19 flu pandemic which disrupts travel, supply chains and normal business activity. A pandemic affects both supply and demand.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[coprolite]

2 hours ago, strichener said:

It's really not.  I cannot think of a single economist that would attribute a recession to insufficient supply, it is the exact opposite - lack of demand.

Lots of economists argue that a causal factor for recessions is insufficient supply, at least as manifested in oil price rises. This includes the 07/08 event. 

It isn't straightforward because the price rise is due to supply being low compared to demand and not necessarily in absolute terms. So arguably these are caused by demand being too high (ie a bubble). 

The number of inter-related variables with feedback loops and all sorts makes it incredibly hard to isolate a single or even a main cause for any recession. 

While i  agree that most economists wouldn't say that a lack of supply causes recessions they also wouldn't say it's a lack of demand. 

This is an area that's the subject of a huge amount of debate among the world's top economists. Anyone claiming a categorical single cause is either at it or stupid. 

[doulikefish]

After todays polls the snpeeeeeeeeee bad will need to be ramped up 

[Baxter Parp]

2 hours ago, MixuFruit said:

Aye someone is blowing dust off a folder that says 'cybernats' as we speak.

Don't kid yourself, there's no dust on that folder.

[Caledonian1]

5 hours ago, doulikefish said:

After todays polls the snpeeeeeeeeee bad will need to be ramped up 

Yes, and as a tactic its working well isnt it............

I suspect that the polls will get even better now as it is becoming "quite normal" to view independence as the sensible way forward - there is a number of people out there that want to be seen to be on the winning side

[speckled tangerine]

20 minutes ago, MixuFruit said:

Sure there is. Cybernats were a terrible problem plaguing our society till September 19th when they weren't.

"Cybernats" seems ever so quaint. It's a phrase that seems from another age.