Mike Tyson

[sugna]

The reason I mentioned Liston and Foreman was nothing to do with longevity, but rather because they "psychologically ruled the division by fear" more than any other fighters, t their peaks.

It's hard for us to understand now just how terrifying Liston was to every other top fighter; indeed, it was seen as insanity on "Clay's" part that he showed no terror. The old newsreel, contemporary accounts and some (very well done) retrospectives make this clear.

Similarly, Foreman was seen by the press and other boxers' managers as utterly invincible. He had devastating  power. It was almost universally thought that he couldn't be beaten by anyone. The exception, again, was Ali; and again, Ali was considered mad for signing up to fight him.

Both of these champions had an aura of being able to bully the next hardest man in the world, and without The Greatest, they may well have done so for many years.

Foreman's second career rather muddies the waters of his legacy from his terrifying era; Liston was so completely eclipsed in his two defeats by Ali that he has been somewhat downgraded. But he was a very intimidating heavyweight indeed.

They would be my top two terrifiers in their pomps. I think that contemporary expert opinion would support that. I'm not sure sure about hindsight and popular opinion; but you can't have everything.

[Peppino Impastato]

34 minutes ago, dundeefc1783 said:

 

Still does nothing to prove that he should be considered as an all time great. He quite simply doesn’t have the resume.

 

That's not what we were talking about champ.

And, logically speaking, the youngest heavyweight champion of all time would obviously have to be considered an all time great.  If he never had another fight after berbick that alone is enough of a resume to be considered an all time great.  Your comment just doesn't make sense.

[Bairnardo]

That's not what we were talking about champ.
And, logically speaking, the youngest heavyweight champion of all time would obviously have to be considered an all time great.  If he never had another fight after berbick that alone is enough of a resume to be considered an all time great.  Your comment just doesn't make sense.

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Unfuckingbelievable.... The guy who happens to occupy the youngest Champion spot gets a free pass to All Time Greatness.... Fucking heard it all now.

[Bairnardo]

That's not what we were talking about champ.
And, logically speaking, the youngest heavyweight champion of all time would obviously have to be considered an all time great.  If he never had another fight after berbick that alone is enough of a resume to be considered an all time great.  Your comment just doesn't make sense.

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Unfuckingbelievable.... The guy who happens to occupy the youngest Champion spot gets a free pass to All Time Greatness.... Fucking heard it all now.

[Peppino Impastato]

6 minutes ago, Bairnardo said:

 

 

Unfuckingbelievable.... The guy who happens to occupy the youngest Champion spot gets a free pass to All Time Greatness.... Fucking heard it all now.

 

It's not just happens champ he didn't win it in a fkn lucky bag.

Know what is funny though.  You changing your avatar.  That's funny.

[Dominique Malonga]

Just got Tyson’s autobiography for 4:99 on amazon books for my phone.

[Peppino Impastato]

3 minutes ago, Dominique Malonga said:

Just got Tyson’s autobiography for 4:99 on amazon books for my phone.

You'll really enjoy it man it's a fkn brilliant read.

[Dominique Malonga]

You'll really enjoy it man it's a fkn brilliant read.

Off work so just going to get fired into it before the Hibs game the night



They say that some people have bad luck, that some people didn’t get a good hand dealt to them in the game of life.

Mike Tyson, for his whole life, had GROUPS of people trying to hold him down. To take from him, to make his life miserable, and to bring hurt to him. Wether it was bully’s in the streets, deceitful women, tragic deaths of family members and friends, or money hungry men, Mike Tyson has had a tougher road to success than any of us can possibly fathom.

This man has a had a wildly successful life considering how many people have tried to bring him down.

[sjc]

1 hour ago, Peppino Impastato said:

Foreman's attempts at trash talking and acting the hardman were fkn laughable too.  He was clearly acting and not convincing in the slightest.  Tyson was genuinely unhinged and totally off his nut.  He inspired real genuine fear of what he was capable of and what he might do.

A peak Foreman would have beaten a peak Tyson IMO. Tysons style, similar to Fraziers was tailor made for Foreman.

[Peppino Impastato]

7 minutes ago, Dominique Malonga said:

Off work so just going to get fired into it before the Hibs game the night



They say that some people have bad luck, that some people didn’t get a good hand dealt to them in the game of life.

Mike Tyson, for his whole life, had GROUPS of people trying to hold him down. To take from him, to make his life miserable, and to bring hurt to him. Wether it was bully’s in the streets, deceitful women, tragic deaths of family members and friends, or money hungry men, Mike Tyson has had a tougher road to success than any of us can possibly fathom.

This man has a had a wildly successful life considering how many people have tried to bring him down.

 I think people don't realise how wronged this guy was.  Half his career, his legacy and most of his money was stolen from him, his reputation sullied for the rest of his life by a gold digger and a thief.  Yet he's come through it all and is emerging as a wise humble man.  Once you have read it you should watch that interview.

[Peppino Impastato]

Like if you watch it and read about him you realise in almost any setting he has ever been a n he's the most intelligent and emotional person in the room by far and always regarded by virtually everybody as the complete opposite.

[sjc]

1 hour ago, sugna said:

The reason I mentioned Liston and Foreman was nothing to do with longevity, but rather because they "psychologically ruled the division by fear" more than any other fighters, t their peaks.

It's hard for us to understand now just how terrifying Liston was to every other top fighter; indeed, it was seen as insanity on "Clay's" part that he showed no terror. The old newsreel, contemporary accounts and some (very well done) retrospectives make this clear.

Similarly, Foreman was seen by the press and other boxers' managers as utterly invincible. He had devastating  power. It was almost universally thought that he couldn't be beaten by anyone. The exception, again, was Ali; and again, Ali was considered mad for signing up to fight him.

Both of these champions had an aura of being able to bully the next hardest man in the world, and without The Greatest, they may well have done so for many years.

Foreman's second career rather muddies the waters of his legacy from his terrifying era; Liston was so completely eclipsed in his two defeats by Ali that he has been somewhat downgraded. But he was a very intimidating heavyweight indeed.

They would be my top two terrifiers in their pomps. I think that contemporary expert opinion would support that. I'm not sure sure about hindsight and popular opinion; but you can't have everything.

I'd say that was more to do with Foreman & Listons size.......They were huge compared to the rest. Floyd Paterson was effectively a LHW compared to Liston when he lost the title to him. 

Fraziers size & style suited Foreman hence he was destroyed by him thus losing the title.

Psychologically Tyson ruled his era far far more than either imo.

[Bairnardo]

If anyone wants to have a bit of a read of some people who actually know a bit, heres Teddy Atlas on why Tyson doesnt make the cut as one of the greatest of all time.

 

It contains a bit more than "he can knock everyone out"

 

http://www.realclearlife.com/sports/mike-tyson-trainer-teddy-atlas/

[Peppino Impastato]

4 minutes ago, Bairnardo said:

If anyone wants to have a bit of a read of some people who actually know a bit, heres Teddy Atlas on why Tyson doesnt make the cut as one of the greatest of all time.

 

It contains a bit more than "he can knock everyone out"

 

http://www.realclearlife.com/sports/mike-tyson-trainer-teddy-atlas/

Atlas is very bitter about Tyson and clearly hates him. I've watched a few interviews where you can actually see the seethe and venom towards him.  Though there's a whole back story to that and he has some justification.  If you knew as much as you pretend you'd know all that.  I doubt you'd get a similar verdict from Kevin Rooney.

[Peppino Impastato]

7 minutes ago, Bairnardo said:

If anyone wants to have a bit of a read of some people who actually know a bit, heres Teddy Atlas on why Tyson doesnt make the cut as one of the greatest of all time.

 

It contains a bit more than "he can knock everyone out"

 

http://www.realclearlife.com/sports/mike-tyson-trainer-teddy-atlas/

I mean you literally just posted the views of a guy Tyson's camp fired before he became a great and held a gun to his head.  He's going to be impartial eh. 

[Bairnardo]

Atlas is very bitter about Tyson and clearly hates him. I've watched a few interviews where you can actually see the seethe and venom towards him.  Though there's a whole back story to that and he has some justification.  If you knew as much as you pretend you'd know all that.  I doubt you'd get a similar verdict from Kevin Rooney.

We get it. Opinions that dont match yours get disregarded. Thankfully everyone else on a discussion forum knows better and sees you as a figure of ridicule. Atlas knew young Tyson aswell as anyone did.

[Peppino Impastato]

Just now, Bairnardo said:

We get it. Opinions that dont match yours get disregarded. Thankfully everyone else on a discussion forum knows better and sees you as a figure of ridicule. Atlas knew young Tyson aswell as anyone did.

He did, until he got fired. 

[Bairnardo]

He did, until he got fired. 

As did Kevin Rooney.

Do you care to debunk anythong Atlas wrote, or simple disregard his opinion?

[Peppino Impastato]

It’s always a pleasure to listen to Kevin Rooney talk about his old charge Mike Tyson, who in his prime years in the 1980’s, was the most exciting, destructive heavyweight force in boxing history. Check this out…

BoxingInsider:  When was Mike at his prime best?

Kevin Rooney:  “When he beat Michael Spinks. He just wiped him out. Before that he beat Tony Tucker and Tyrell Biggs, the main fighters back then. He wiped out Tony Tucker – he won a 12 round decision, I mean, he kicked his ass. Then he knocked out Tyrell Biggs. He knocked out Larry Holmes. Then he fought Tony Tubbs in Japan – he starched him in two rounds. Then he knocked out Michael Spinks in 90 seconds. 90 seconds. It wasn’t a joke. I mean, he knocked him out. So I think that fighter, in my opinion, could have and should have probably beaten anybody that was in his path. Anybody including Rocky Marciano and Muhammad Ali. Well, I’ll give Muhammad Ali and Rocky – well it could have been different, I mean, Rocky punched like hell. Muhammad punched like hell. Rocky had beat everyone. Muhammad had heart and was hard to hit. The fights would have been interesting. But I believe that Mike would have come out the better. Because he punched very hard [laughs]. Mike…I believe that Mike is one of the hardest punchers in history. He punches harder than Rocky. Punches harder than Joe Louis. Punches harder than George Foreman.”

BoxingInsider:  Didn’t sparring guys come to the gym, see Mike punch, then leave the gym?

Kevin Rooney:  “I don’t remember the guy’s name. I believe he was being paid $400 a week. This was in the early 80’s. The guy gets into the ring [laughs]. Bell rings, Mike comes out, bop, bop, bop. Mike throws combinations. He put his hands up, like, Hold it. He steps out of the ring over the top rope – he was big, like 6-4, 6-5 – and walks out of the front door. Didn’t look for his pay, just gone. We’re all like, what’s happening?! He wanted nothing to do with Mike. He just left. It was funny. Cus (D’Amato), Bill (Cayton), Jim (Jacobs) and Steve (Lott) would bring in a lot of fighters, just do one round. James Broad was a tough guy. There was a guy who would stay in there and give Mike the work, but then took a beating. I mean, every day they took a beating every day. That’s the way Mike was. He was strong, determined, and he wanted to hurt you.”

BoxingInsider:  When do you believe Ali was at his prime and what would your strategy be for Mike vs. Ali?

Kevin Rooney:  “1966, 67, 68, in that time frame. After he beat Liston he just started annihilating guys that were going for the title. Knockin’ people out cold in tough fights, guys that weren’t pushovers. Muhammad dominated. The Muhammad Ali in 1966-67 and Mike Tyson in 1986-87-88-89 – that would have been an incredible fight. I think Mike would have won. He punched harder than Muhammad. But at that point, Muhammad would have had just a little bit more experience. Mike punched hard. Mike really, really punched hard. You’re talking about a kid, 20, 21, 22, against Ali who was 23, 24. It would have been a helluva fight. I would want Mike to put tremendous pressure on him. Cut him off. Get him on the ropes. Wing body shots and the uppercuts. Step to the side and if you got lucky enough, hit him with the right hand or left hook and he would be gone. But see, Muhammad was a great, great fighter. We call him the greatest fighter ever, he took a helluva shot. He never dogged it, he never quit. But the Mike Tyson that I was training – coming off of Cus D’Amato – I just think that that Mike Tyson would have won. Because he punched fast and hard. That’s a difficult combination to deal with. A guy that punches fast and hard, you got a guy that punches hard, well you’re a tough guy all right, well, so what? But when you got a kid that punches hard AND fast. Then all the sudden you’re like, who, who, damn, wait a minute. Right away your hands are gonna go up. You’re gonna be on the move. You’re gonna do this and you’re gonna wanna do that. You’re not gonna stand there and say, hit me again. So Mike had that.”

BoxingInsider:  What Tyson fight were you most concerned with going in?

Kevin Rooney:  “None. None. When I had Mike we were in training camp for five weeks. Back then I used to run 3-4 miles with him just to make sure he was doing it. And then we’d go to the gym. And then we’d go to a health club at night. Then we’d go do bed. When he was with me there was no partying. There was no, well I worked hard, I’m gonna go have a few drinks and try to pick up a girl. That never happened. Hey Mike, guess what? We got a title to defend and you gotta be in tip-top shape. So that Mike Tyson, if he didn’t cross channels and went with Don King, he would have gone down as the greatest heavyweight in history. Now people are talking, ah, he’s nothing. But that’s not true.”

BoxingInsider:  Is he at his best the greatest fighting machine of the ring you ever saw?

Kevin Rooney:  “Yes. I believe that and I stand by that. He was. Because he was elusive. The best thing about it was these guys couldn’t hit him. When you can’t hit somebody, that becomes very frustrating. In boxing, I’m trying to hit you, you’re moving your head and I can’t hit you. And I’m like, what the ****. That’s what happened in a lot of Mike’s fights. They couldn’t hit him. And I could see then, Mike, this guy’s ready to go, get rid of him. He don’t want to hang around no more. And why? Because I could see the frustration in their face. They throw punches and they can’t hit him. Wait. When I throw these punches against Tom Dick I hit him. I throw ’em against this guy, I can’t hit him [smiles]. That was Cus’ style. Mike could have been 100-0 and made a billion dollars, if he stayed with me.”

[Peppino Impastato]

Kevin Rooney's views /\

Care to debunk any of them champ?  I'm gonna take his and Ali's over yours if that's okay champ.