The Ultimate Super Ayr Thread

[BukyOHare]

I'd even justify Doolans lack of minutes if we had a squad of 25 players and plenty of options. We clearly don't have either.

The short term success of the front three has clearly had a big impact but I feel teams are starting to work us out to some extent and other ways of using the squad have to be considered.

If he leaves, he leaves, but let's not get out of the January window and beyond bemoaning the lack of a penalty box striker or someone capable of linking play. Its increasingly likely this could happen.

I don't think we've utilised him as best we could and therefore haven't seen the best of him.

 

 

Edited October 27, 2019 by BukyOHare

[BukyOHare]

7 minutes ago, Trogdor said:

I should have been clearer, I do agree with you partially. In that injuries have forced us to change our formation. Its either 442 or more aggressive 4231 you suggested.

However, in either scemario it is Moore ahead of Doolan for me.

ETA - If we get an injury at centre half maybe we can try Doolan there. I remember Roberts tried playing an aging striker at centre half.

Moore isn't a striker to be played as a lone striker with players feeding off him though. He has neither the game knowledge / experience, first touch or general awareness of what's around him.

He's a finisher (of sorts) but with someone  alongside him.

[UpInTheAyr]

I think he deserves far more minutes in games than he's been getting, for the last few weeks we're looking jaded and in need of a plan b or c and there's been talk on here of him becoming a target for the boo boys when he has had an appearance (I don't know I wasn't there). Recent games now we've created clearcut chances and not taken them. All things considered I consider him to be treated shockingly.
At his stage if his career, he needs to be playing more often to keep himself match ready. Just because he came in and Shankland left, I suppose people are thinking he was a like for like replacement, he isn't.
He's more similar to Moffat for me, and even he's dropping out of recent games. You may disagree but I still believe he's worthy of a few starts. 
If we can get Moffat, Forrest and McCowan in and around him feeding off him then I think we'll offer teams a different threat. 4231 for me would be a way to go.
And if he's in the penalty box then I still think he'll convert the chances we're creating.

He hasnt been playing because the team were winning and the players keeping him out were performing, Doolan himself admits that. To say he's been treated shockingly is nonsense. Now that's no longer so he's got a case for chapping on the managers doorstep to ask for game time.

[BukyOHare]

Just checked and Doolans scored 54 SPL goals in 5 seasons. You cant ignore that ability at our level or within our budget. We simply have to find a way to give him more minutes and generally get the best out of him within the framework of the team we have.

Giving him 15 minutes here and there, clearly isn't helping anybody.

[pandarilla]

I greenied the post about doolan deserving a chance but he hasn't being treated shockingly.

I think he deserves a few starts to see if he can get up to speed. Our front three looked ok on Friday but a bit jaded, and for me McCowan needs a spell out the team.

I'm not sure what formation to go with, but a 4-4-2 with mcguffie and Forrest out wide, and Doolan and Moore up top sounds very attacking.

Doc and Kelly sitting quite deep to protect - even thought that changes the way we've been playing entirely.

I think doolan could come in for moff in our current 4-3-3 but not sure mcguffie would be great in the McCowan role. It also means we need to find a central midfielder and would leave Moore on the bench.

Not ideal either way.

[Trogdor]

A reputation earnt seasons ago shouldn't entitle you to a start.

Also he hasnt just had 5 minutes a game, see below from start of the season. Hopefully we can now bin that myth.

A Berwick - 90 mins 2 goals

A Livingston - 45 mins (1st Half)

H Falkirk - 45 mins (2nd Half)

H Stranraer - 56 mins (from start)

H Morton - 4 mins (on 86)

A Dundee - 18 mins (on 72)

H QoS - 20 mins (on 70)

A Partick - 90 mins 1 goal

A Wrexham - 72 mins (from start)

A Alloa - 22 mins (on 68)

A Arbroath - 13 mins (on 77)

H Inverness - 14 mins (on 76)

A Dunfermline - 8 mins (on 82)

H Dundee - 2 mins (on 88)

By my calc, he has had 218 mins in the league so far. With 317 minutes in the cups. In my totals, I've added an average of 3 mins per game for stoppage time where he was on at the end.

I hope I have sufficiently debunked the 5 mins a game myth.

Edited October 27, 2019 by Trogdor

[pandarilla]

It's not about owing him, it's about us possibly getting the best out of a player.

Moff wasn't his usual self and the games are coming thick and fast. He could really benefit from 10 days rest.

I dunno. I'm just not totally giving up on doolan yet. I think his reputation earns him one decent shot.

[BukyOHare]

18 minutes ago, Trogdor said:

A reputation earnt seasons ago shouldn't entitle you to a start.

Also he hasnt just had 5 minutes a game, see below from start of the season. Hopefully we can now bin that myth.

A Berwick - 90 mins 2 goals

A Livingston - 45 mins (1st Half)

H Falkirk - 45 mins (2nd Half)

H Stranraer - 56 mins (from start)

H Morton - 4 mins (on 86)

A Dundee - 18 mins (on 72)

H QoS - 20 mins (on 70)

A Partick - 90 mins 1 goal

A Wrexham - 72 mins (from start)

A Alloa - 22 mins (on 68)

A Arbroath - 13 mins (on 77)

H Inverness - 14 mins (on 76)

A Dunfermline - 8 mins (on 82)

H Dundee - 2 mins (on 88)

By my calc, he has had 218 mins in the league so far. With 317 minutes in the cups. I've added an average of 3 mins per game for stoppage time where he was on at the end.

I hope I have sufficiently debunked the 5 mins a game myth.

I genuinely didn't think he'd had an average of 5 minutes a league game, it was a figure of speech but thanks for confirming that he's actually had 20 minutes per game.

Still hardly a great amount of time to judge that he's definitively not a player who can contribute more than he has been allowed to show, and certainly not enough time to warrant being booed by his own fans (if true). 

[BukyOHare]

36 minutes ago, Trogdor said:

A reputation earnt seasons ago shouldn't entitle you to a start.

Also he hasnt just had 5 minutes a game, see below from start of the season. Hopefully we can now bin that myth.

A Berwick - 90 mins 2 goals

A Livingston - 45 mins (1st Half)

H Falkirk - 45 mins (2nd Half)

H Stranraer - 56 mins (from start)

H Morton - 4 mins (on 86)

A Dundee - 18 mins (on 72)

H QoS - 20 mins (on 70)

A Partick - 90 mins 1 goal

A Wrexham - 72 mins (from start)

A Alloa - 22 mins (on 68)

A Arbroath - 13 mins (on 77)

H Inverness - 14 mins (on 76)

A Dunfermline - 8 mins (on 82)

H Dundee - 2 mins (on 88)

By my calc, he has had 218 mins in the league so far. With 317 minutes in the cups. In my totals, I've added an average of 3 mins per game for stoppage time where he was on at the end.

I hope I have sufficiently debunked the 5 mins a game myth.

That made me chuckle. He was scoring in the SPL two seasons ago.

And if we're not going on the relative past, what's Craig Moore done recently?

 

[Thereisalight..]

Moffat has been really disappointing the last 2 or 3 games, as has McCowan. I wouldn’t be adverse to either or both of them dropping to the bench and bringing Doolan/Moore in on Tuesday 

[Finlay21]

Just now, Thereisalight.. said:

Moffat has been really disappointing the last 2 or 3 games, as has McCowan. I wouldn’t be adverse to either or both of them dropping to the bench and bringing Doolan/Moore in on Tuesday 

Agree on McCowan , think he needs rested , would drop Moffat back into Geggans place in midfield  , Moore up front and more drawn towards McGuffie out wide replacing McCowan rather than Doolan as think we need width to break down Morton 

[Trogdor]

17 minutes ago, BukyOHare said:

That made me chuckle. He was scoring in the SPL two seasons ago.

And if we're not going on the relative past, what's Craig Moore done recently?

 

This made me chuckle more, he scored 6 league goals last season in the Championship. Are you just discounting his most recent past? 

Also comparing him to a guy who has been injured? Are you for real?

I'm not sure if the guys suggesting Doolan have actually watched him this season He is totally done.

Moore is the only viable change up top as per Robbo's suggestion.

I'd be delighted to be proved wrong about Doolan but having watched him for almost 6 hours competitively in an Ayr shirt I'm yet to see this great player some are commenting on who we should change our whole style of play to accommodate.

Its sad but true, the best outcome is he goes back to Thistle in January in some capacity and we free up a wage to bring someone else in.

Spoiler

I genuinely hope this post comes back to bite me on the arse but I doubt it.

 

Edited October 27, 2019 by Trogdor

[Guest]

29 minutes ago, pandarilla said:

It's not about owing him, it's about us possibly getting the best out of a player.

Moff wasn't his usual self and the games are coming thick and fast. He could really benefit from 10 days rest.

I dunno. I'm just not totally giving up on doolan yet. I think his reputation earns him one decent shot.

I actually thought he was one of our best players on Friday, however the likes of Kelly and McCowan both had poor games for me compared with their usual level of performance but of course the structure of the team especially in the second half didn't help Kelly too much.

I do agree that the team could do with freshening up a bit though, I'd perhaps be inclined to rest McCowan and give Moore a chance and maybe even give Doolan a start in place of Moff at Cappielow and if it doesn't work we can always swap them at H/T (assuming we're not about 4 down).

The biggest problem we have is the midfield, (I'll hold my hands up here and admit that I posted only about a week ago that we had decent cover) but with Murdoch out long term, Bell and Adams seemingly no nearer to returning and Geggan now injured along with Kerr then we're pretty much screwed in that area of the park which is arguably the most important area.

I really don't know what we can do, can Harvie play in there (I reckon he has all the attributes) and we could give Ecrepont a run out at LB ? 

Oh well, if nothing else it's a baptism of fire for our new management team and the best thing we can do as fans is stick by them and support the team as much as we can..................

[BukyOHare]

 

18 minutes ago, Trogdor said:

This made me chuckle more, he scored 6 league goals last season in the Championship. Are you just discounting his most recent past? 

Also comparing him to a guy who has been injured? Are you for real?

I'm not sure if the guys suggesting Doolan have actually watched him this season He is totally done.

Moore is the only viable change up top as per Robbo's suggestion.

I'd be delighted to be proved wrong about Doolan but having watched him for almost 6 hours competitively in an Ayr shirt I'm yet to see this great player some are commenting on who we should change our whole style of play to accommodate.

Its sad but true, the best outcome is he goes back to Thistle in January in some capacity and we free up a wage to bring someone else in.

  Reveal hidden contents

I genuinely hope this post comes back to bite me on the arse but I doubt it.

 

If Moore gets 6 league goals this season I'll be pleasantly surprised. He's scored 6 Championship goals in total over 2 seasons for us and I don't think even he in his wildest dreams would think he'd score 54 SPL goals in his career as Doolan has done.

My point of comparing him as a player who has been injured is to highlight your claim that he's somehow the answer if we finally do get round to making some changes. 

Somehow in your eyes he's seen to being the automatic alternative. I beg to differ, it happens, but I'll refrain from asking if you're actually the one for real as chat like that does you no favours.

 

Edited October 27, 2019 by BukyOHare

[Trogdor]

48 minutes ago, BukyOHare said:

If Moore gets 6 league goals this season I'll be pleasantly surprised. He's scored 6 Championship goals in total over 2 seasons for us and I don't think even he in his wildest dreams would think he'd score 54 SPL goals in his career as Doolan has done.

My point of comparing him as a player who has been injured is to highlight your claim that he's somehow the answer if we finally do get round to making some changes. 

Somehow in your eyes he's seen to being the automatic alternative. I beg to differ, it happens, but I'll refrain from asking if you're actually the one for real as chat like that does you no favours.

 

6 goals was referring to Doolan last year not Moore! You talk about SPL goals but they mean nothing in the Championship. (Kris Boyd is a good illustrative example) Hence why I highlighted he got six goals for the whole season rather than his premier league goals.

Also as a factual point, Moore has scored six goals in 34 Championship games over two seasons. Doolan got 6 goals in 30 Championship games last season. It seems quite comparable to me.

Moore has also been injured every time we have been in the Championship. I reckon if he was fit for the full season and could get into the side he would score 10+ goals.

Are you Kris Doolan by any chance?

Edited October 27, 2019 by Trogdor

[pandarilla]

Are you Craig Moore?

He's not going to be some hero striker waiting to return. He works hard and can finish chances well but he's a limited footballer, and probably won't suit our current passing style.

[Trogdor]

6 minutes ago, pandarilla said:

Are you Craig Moore?

He's not going to be some hero striker waiting to return. He works hard and can finish chances well but he's a limited footballer, and probably won't suit our current passing style.

I'm not claiming he is the messiah but hes closer to it than Doolan.

[pandarilla]

I'm not claiming he is the messiah but hes closer to it than Doolan.

Like you said earlier, I hope I'm wrong but neither of them give me great hope. I think they could both do a good job given the right system around them, and that's going to be a big factor for Kerr in the next couple of months.

[BukyOHare]

17 minutes ago, Trogdor said:

6 goals was referring to Doolan last year not Moore! You talk about SPL goals but they mean nothing in the Championship. (Kris Boyd is a good illustrative example)look Hence why I highlighted he got six goals for the whole season rather than his premier league goals.

Also as a factual point, Moore has scored six goals in 34 Championship games over two seasons. Doolan got 6 goals in 30 Championship games last season. It seems quite comparable to me.

Moore has also been injured every time we have been in the Championship. I reckon if he was fit for the full season and could get into the side he would score 10+ goals.

Are you Kris Doolan by any chance?

Honestly mate, if that's your take on things good luck to you.

Craig Moore could have as many football careers as you want to give him and he still wouldnt get near 54 SPL goals. Fact.

Partick fans have had their share of capable (and I dare say) not so capable strikers over the years, simply put they know a good one. Can they equally be wrong of their opinion of Doolan?

And that he's somehow struggling to be more than a body around our place. Baffling, truly baffling.

 

 

 

Edited October 27, 2019 by BukyOHare

[ayrmad]

13 minutes ago, BukyOHare said:

Honestly mate, if that's your take on things good luck to you.

Craig Moore could have as many football careers as you want to give him and he still wouldnt get near 54 SPL goals. Fact.

Partick fans have had their share of capable (and I dare say) not so capable strikers over the years, simply put they know a good one. Can they equally be wrong of their opinion of Doolan?

And that he's somehow struggling to be more than a body around our place. Baffling, truly baffling.

 

 

 

Tbh, either Doolan is done or we don't play in a style that allows him to flourish, either way, what he's done at Partick years ago means nothing to me as an Ayr fan.

I've saw players with far better careers than Doolan look absolutely shite in an Ayr strip at the fag end of their careers.

Edited October 27, 2019 by ayrmad