What is the point of Labour ?

[HTG]

Independence will never be off the agenda. Never. 

[lichtgilphead]

1 hour ago, Detournement said:

As i've said there are plenty of Labour achievements which haven't been undone despite Tory wishes 

 

1 hour ago, MixuFixit said:

What sort of achievements are you thinking of when you say they haven't been undone?

 

1 hour ago, Detournement said:

As we are already discussing it the state pension. 

It should be pointed out at this stage that the State Pension was not introduced by Labour.

A means tested pension was introduced in 1908 by the (old) Liberal Party. It was only payable at age 70

A contribution related pension was intoduced in 1925 by the Tories. Both couples in a marriage had to be 65. This had the effect of making men work later, as they were often older that their wives.

Accordingly, in 1940, the tories reduced the pension age for women to 60. This allowed most married men to access their married man's rate at 65

In 1948, Labour introduced the provision that men had to retire at 65 to receive their pension. 

In 1995, under pressure from Europe, the Tories announced plans to equalise men & womens pension ages

In 2007, Labour passed a new law to raise state pension age to 66 between April 2024 and April 2026, then to 67 between April 2034 and April 2036 and to 68 between April 2044 and April 2046.

In April 2010 (still under a Labour Government) the first women are affected by the equalisation changes. Women born 6 April 1950 to 5 May 1950 have to wait until 6 May 2010 to reach state pension age, a delay of up to one month.

Every change since then has been under a Tory Government

Link

So, in real life (as opposed to H_B's fantasy Labour paradise)

1) Labour didn't introduce the pension

2) The first legislation relating to pensions passed by Labour removed the pension from men over 65 who continued to work

3) The other major change introduced by Labour was to increase the retiral age to 66, 67 & eventually 68.

I'm no supporter of the Liberals or the Tories, but it was these parties that first introduced pensions to the UK and reduced the original age requirements. All Labour have done is reduce entitlements and increase the age at which it is paid.

Labour - taking credit for other parties achievements since forever.

[Detournement]

Aye the change from contribution based to universal under the Atlee government was nothing.

And the notion that the Tories and Liberals passed progressive laws out of the goodness of their hearts is ridiculous. They passed them because of pressure from the organised working class. It's the lack of organisation amongst the working class that is allowing them to reverse those gains now.

 

[lichtgilphead]

3 minutes ago, Detournement said:

Aye the change from contribution based to universal under the Atlee government was nothing.

 

It has nothing to to with the subject under discussion, which (if I recall correctly) was about changes to the pension age.

Labour had f*ck all to do with introducing the pension, and have only increased the age at which it is recieved.

I wouldn't list that amongst their "achievements"

 

[Detournement]

10 minutes ago, lichtgilphead said:

It has nothing to to with the subject under discussion, which (if I recall correctly) was about changes to the pension age.

Labour had f*ck all to do with introducing the pension, and have only increased the age at which it is received.

I wouldn't list that amongst their "achievements"

 

Labour introduced the universal old age pension.

It's a great achievement.

[lichtgilphead]

55 minutes ago, Detournement said:

Labour introduced the universal old age pension.

It's a great achievement.

No. Labour introduced the cradle-to-grave Welfare State. That was a great achievenent

However the old-age pension is still a "contribution-based" scheme. You have to pay a certain number of complete years of NI contributions to get the full pension.

Accordingly, it's incorrect to describe it as "universal". This is basic stuff.

 

[pandarilla]

And it was the liberals in 1908.

[D Angelo Barksdale]

Whilst Guido is very obviously a right wing bellend, I never actually realised he was this thick.

[NotThePars]

If it gets the hogs hooting and hollering

[D Angelo Barksdale]

Pissed myself laughing at the air guitar bit tbh.

[Benjamin_Nevis]

4 hours ago, Detournement said:

Labour introduced the universal old age pension.

It's a great achievement.

 

3 hours ago, lichtgilphead said:

No. Labour introduced the cradle-to-grave Welfare State. That was a great achievenent

However the old-age pension is still a "contribution-based" scheme. You have to pay a certain number of complete years of NI contributions to get the full pension.

Accordingly, it's incorrect to describe it as "universal". This is basic stuff.

 

 

2 hours ago, pandarilla said:

And it was the liberals in 1908.

H_B  

[Granny Danger]

Every time Labour look like they have an advantage they turn it into an own goal.  This ‘being neutral’ in a new referendum being the latest nonsense.

Their fucked up Brexit policy is a combination of Corbyn’s own negativity, trying to satisfy the political dinosaur McLuskey and appeasing the Labour MPs frightened of losing their seats*.

A more positive pro-active approach would see them well ahead in the polls.

* Many Labour Leave seats would probably be Remain in a new Referendum anyway; particularly if the alternative was No Deal.

[dirty dingus]

O'Donnell has said he would campaign for remain and Abbott was on Today earlier said she would campaign for remain, although with the caveat that it was her personal choice.

Off topic but on the Today show they had a royalist historian who was tying herself in knots trying to defend Prince Paedo of York and was talking about how princes often get led astray by nasty characters but with a bit of guidance they can go on to fulfill their role to the Empire. BBC on full deflect mode.

[O'Kelly Isley III]

Every time Labour look like they have an advantage they turn it into an own goal.  This ‘being neutral’ in a new referendum being the latest nonsense.
Their fucked up Brexit policy is a combination of Corbyn’s own negativity, trying to satisfy the political dinosaur McLuskey and appeasing the Labour MPs frightened of losing their seats*.
A more positive pro-active approach would see them well ahead in the polls.
* Many Labour Leave seats would probably be Remain in a new Referendum anyway; particularly if the alternative was No Deal.

I set a very low bar for Corbyn and Labour a while back and they certainly haven't disappointed. I hold out little hope of them having anything meaningful to contribute in future either.

[ICTJohnboy]

43 minutes ago, O'Kelly Isley III said:

12 hours ago, Granny Danger said:

Every time Labour look like they have an advantage they turn it into an own goal.  This ‘being neutral’ in a new referendum being the latest nonsense.
Their fucked up Brexit policy is a combination of Corbyn’s own negativity, trying to satisfy the political dinosaur McLuskey and appeasing the Labour MPs frightened of losing their seats*.
A more positive pro-active approach would see them well ahead in the polls.
* Many Labour Leave seats would probably be Remain in a new Referendum anyway; particularly if the alternative was No Deal.

I set a very low bar for Corbyn and Labour a while back and they certainly haven't disappointed. I hold out little hope of them having anything meaningful to contribute in future either.

 

I haven't got any faith in Corbyn stalling, let alone preventing, a No Deal Brexit.

Then again, isn't leaving the EU what he's wanted all along?

 

[BawWatchin]

3 hours ago, ICTJohnboy said:

 

I haven't got any faith in Corbyn stalling, let alone preventing, a No Deal Brexit.

Then again, isn't leaving the EU what he's wanted all along?

 

Along with Boris Johnson and Jo Swinson.

[Granny Danger]

The Independent bigging up the vacuous bint JessPhillips again.  I’m not sure why they are so desperate to have her as Labour leader but there must be a reason.  Fortunately it’s not going to happen.

[Highlandmagyar 2nd Tier]

5 minutes ago, Granny Danger said:

The Independent bigging up the vacuous bint JessPhillips again.  I’m not sure why they are so desperate to have her as Labour leader but there must be a reason.  Fortunately it’s not going to happen.

She wouldn't be any worse than Corbyn.

[Granny Danger]

34 minutes ago, Highlandmagyar 2nd Tier said:

She wouldn't be any worse than Corbyn.

I suppose it depends on what you want in a leader.

Intellect and principles are two of the qualities  that I think are paramount.  She had neither,

[Highlandmagyar 2nd Tier]

Just now, Granny Danger said:

I suppose it depends on what you want in a leader.

Intellect and principles are two of the qualities  that I think are paramount.  She had neither,

And does Corbyn?