What is the point of Labour ?

[The OP]

Just now, dorlomin said:

We are headed for a Tory government.

And all losers like you (who will most likely not vote Labour) can do is deflect from the issues that hamper people trusting Labour.

Lets see how your "20 year rule" applies if a 21 year old scandal that affects Johnson emerges. 

A river in Egypt, denial. 

Shite patter, smilies, assumptions and cliched US high school girl level insults aside, Jeremy Corbyn as a card carrying IRA member is not a scandal which is significant for many people apart from you. We are headed for a Tory government because we are faced with a one issue election. Terrorist loving is one of a number of smears Corbyn been hit with but he’ll lose because of the “get Brexit done” mantra. Tbf, if not for that, he’d probably lose because people vote against their own interests whilst believing they are protecting their interest and Corbyn is a big nasty socialist.

Whether the post you instantly dismissed is accurate or not, the IRA are completely irrelevant to most Britons’ lives (at present).  The only people who care about this are hardcore unionists and British nationalists. This is because the Troubles were largely sorted by politicians speaking to terrorist organisations and this message was hammered home to the public in 1999 and beyond. Furthermore, post-2003 at the very least almost everyone knows everyone in a position of power has met dodgy murderous c***s.

Maybe we do generally need a banal middle grounder like Keir Starmer leading Labour in order to avoid a Tory majority being inflicted upon us but, as a more obvious remainer, he’d potentially be even more fucked in this election. You are lashing out blindly here and coming across as a total p***k in so doing. 

[D Angelo Barksdale]

It's clearly just this playing on a loop inside dorlomin's head.

[BawWatchin]

44 minutes ago, dorlomin said:

We are headed for a Tory government.

More reason for Scotland to leave the UK m8.

[Detournement]

From Richard Murphy's blog today.

Quote

 

There has been UK Labour market news published this morning. The following are worth noting:

• Regular real pay remains below its pre-crash levels. This lost decade for living standards is unprecedented since the Industrial Revolution. 
• Unemployment has fallen slightly but the quality of work has declined hugely since 2010. The majority of people in poverty are in working households. (IFS)
• Today’s earnings figures do not include self-employed people, half of whom (1.85m workers) earn less than the minimum wage. (TUC)
• 3.7m workers are in insecure work (notably zero hours contracts, self-employment below minimum wage, casual work and agency work).
• A quarter of all workers have trouble meeting their basic living costs because of income volatility (RSA, up from a fifth in 2017).
• 36% of all workers would struggle to deal with an unexpected bill of £100. (RSA)
• The growth in employment since the financial crisis is in large part the result of second earners in low income households entering the labour force to make up for the decline in household income, as primary earners’ wages and benefits have declined. (“Feel poor, work more”, Resolution Foundation)
• A prolonged lack of investment and decline in worker bargaining power (including declining membership of trade unions) have contributed to the UK’s poor labour market performance. 
• UK productivity growth has flatlined since 2008 because of low investment and workforce skills. Without significant investment in workers and education, the UK will continue to underperform.

If you think a decade of Tory rule has not helped working people you would be right.

 

This is why we desperately need a transformative Labour government. All the people who want to talk about personalities, "leadership" or 20th century terror organisations can quite simply f**k off. They are either idiots or acting in bad faith.

The complete erasure of the economic realities of the UK in 2019 is the media's greatest gift to the Tories.

 

[John Lambies Doos]

Well this thread has gone off piste.

Newsflash, you have to talk to people to resolve differences.

You can blame Corbyn for a lot of things but condoning mass murder and refusing to talk to people of different ilks isn't two of them.

 

 

[dirty dingus]

Tom Harris comes out and says vote tory, colour me surprised. He's now spouting the usual Corbyn is a terrorist etc..etc.

[Lurkst]

23 minutes ago, dirty dingus said:

Tom Harris comes out and says vote tory, colour me surprised. 

At least he's finally admitted it.

[Kuro]

11 hours ago, Detournement said:

From Richard Murphy's blog today.

This is why we desperately need a transformative Labour government. All the people who want to talk about personalities, "leadership" or 20th century terror organisations can quite simply f**k off. They are either idiots or acting in bad faith.

The complete erasure of the economic realities of the UK in 2019 is the media's greatest gift to the Tories.

 

it doesn't matter though, these are the uks economic realities forever, if Labour sneak a win this time history shows they'll be out soon anyway and the tories.can get back to.ruining lives as England votes.Tory three times out of four and England decides UK general elections.   What we need is independence, not labour.

[Pet Jeden]

14 minutes ago, Kuro said:

it doesn't matter though, these are the uks economic realities forever, if Labour sneak a win this time history shows they'll be out soon anyway and the tories.can get back to.ruining lives as England votes.Tory three times out of four and England decides UK general elections.   What we need is independence, not labour.

Genuine question: is it independence or socialism that you most want? If, in 10-15 years time, Scotland is independent but is governed by a conservative government, while rUK is Labour/LibDem, would you then want reunification?

Edited November 13, 2019 by Pet Jeden

[Kuro]

1 minute ago, Pet Jeden said:

Genuine question: is it independence or socialism that you most want? If, in 10-15 years time, Scotland is independent but is governed by a conservative government, while rUK is Labour/LibDem, would you then want reunification?

I never mentioned socialism.  I want self determination, social democracy and health and prosperity for Scotland.  Scotland hasn't voted right of centre for 64 years, more than any country in the developed world.  England votee right of centre 75% of the time.  Scotland would be a better place to live for the people that live there if it was governed by the people that live there, and that's all I want.

[Pet Jeden]

5 minutes ago, Kuro said:

I never mentioned socialism.  I want self determination, social democracy and health and prosperity for Scotland.  Scotland hasn't voted right of centre for 64 years, more than any country in the developed world.  England votee right of centre 75% of the time.  Scotland would be a better place to live for the people that live there if it was governed by the people that live there, and that's all I want.

Okay. My bad. Change "socialsim" for "social democracy" in my question. If you end up in an independent Scotland governed by conservatives, you won't hanker after another union with our big neighbour?

[Kuro]

6 minutes ago, Pet Jeden said:

Okay. My bad. Change "socialsim" for "social democracy" in my question. If you end up in an independent Scotland governed by conservatives, you won't hanker after another union with our big neighbour?

But you're just denying reality aren't you in support of your British nationalism.  The facts are Scotland vot es left and England votes right, and just cause you want it not to be that way is not going to change a hundred years of history.

Let me ask you a question then.  My question is reality based unlike yours.  If you have a choice of living under Tory governments for three quarters of the rest of your life, or never living under a Tory government again, what would you choose? 

As an extension to that would you encourage five million people to sacrifice never living under the Tories again, potentially condemning them to Tory governments for most of their lives, in pursuit of the temporary goal of what you perceive to be socialism at a UK level?

Edited November 13, 2019 by Kuro

[Pet Jeden]

7 minutes ago, Kuro said:

But you're just denying reality aren't you in support of your British nationalism.  The facts are Scotland vot es left and England votes right, and just cause you want it not to be that way is not going to change a hundred years of history.

Let me ask you a question then.  My question is reality based unlike yours.  If you have a choice of living under Tory governments for three quarters of the rest of your life, or never living under a Tory government again, what would you choose? 

As an extension to that would you encourage five million people to sacrifice never living under the Tories again, potentially condemning them to Tory governments for most of their lives, in pursuit of the temporary goal of what you perceive to be socialism at a UK level?

I choose independence. On principle. But don't kid yourself. Scotland isn't politically so very different to England. At the last election the Tories polled 28% in Scotland. In 1950s  post war austerity it was as high as 50%. I reckon plenty of conservatively minded folk don't vote Tory because the Conservative party feels too, erm, English. Post-independence, I wouldn't bank on perma-Labour, particularly as "the left" would then no doubt split.

[Kuro]

Just now, Pet Jeden said:

I choose independence. On principle. But don't kid yourself. Scotland isn't politically so very different to England. At the last election the Tories polled 28% in Scotland. In 1950s  post war austerity it was as high as 50%. I reckon plenty of conservatively minded folk don't vote Tory because the Conservative party feels too, erm, English. Post-independence, I wouldn't bank on perma-Labour, particularly as "the left" would then no doubt split.

The 1950s is.almost seventy years ago.  There are people in Scotland just about to draw a pension that have never lived in a country that voted Tory but have been governed by them.the majority of their lives.  If the left split a left wing coalition would govern.

[Guest]

1 hour ago, dirty dingus said:

Tom Harris comes out and says vote tory, colour me surprised. He's now spouting the usual Corbyn is a terrorist etc..etc.

Typical Beith Boy. 

Seriously though, everyone with half a brain knows that the Blairite brigade within Labour are more right wing than many of the Tories.

They've been using the likes of this anti semitism nonsense continuously for the past couple of years in an attempt to discredit Corbyn and his socialist ideals. The likes of Berger, Watson, Austin, Hodge, Harris etc, etc are all complete scum and have done nothing but attempt to destroy the party from the inside. They have shown nothing but complete contempt for the people they were supposed to be representing and are nothing but a complete disgrace.

It's no wonder many people feel so disenfranchised and completely scunnered with politicians and politics in general...........

[Pet Jeden]

12 minutes ago, MixuFixit said:

Why would we want a union in this scenario?

We shouldn't. But I reckon a chunk of SNP voters either see an SNP vote as simply an anti-Tory vote to fight at Westminster and another chunk only see independence as  a vehicle for escaping conservatism. Whereas, I would think if you asked 100 Irish people, would you rather endure 100 years of continuous "conservative" policies from the Dail or reunite with a Labour controlled UK , all 100 would give you a pretty clear answer.

[Pet Jeden]

7 minutes ago, Kuro said:

The 1950s is.almost seventy years ago.  There are people in Scotland just about to draw a pension that have never lived in a country that voted Tory but have been governed by them.the majority of their lives.  If the left split a left wing coalition would govern.

We'll see. Bookmark this for 2040.

[thisal]

17 hours ago, thisal said:

The people that are doing most damage to the Labour party are within. The Tory press were always going to go for Corbyn and the general consensus would be "Well that's what they would say" But there are people within Labour who have been ousted by the left who have taken the hump (Or maybe never had Labour values) who are backing them up.  That in my opinion is what has really damaged Corbyn.

 

1 hour ago, dirty dingus said:

Tom Harris comes out and says vote tory, colour me surprised. He's now spouting the usual Corbyn is a terrorist etc..etc.

I think Tom Harris comes under the  "Well that's what they would say" category rather than the damage from within. 

It was said that the west changed it's governments but not it's policies and China never changed it's government  but changed it's policies. I think there are a lot of people upset that Corbyn is trying to change the policy.

[Guest]

11 minutes ago, thisal said:

 

I think Tom Harris comes under the  "Well that's what they would say" category rather than the damage from within. 

It was said that the west changed it's governments but not it's policies and China never changed it's government  but changed it's policies. I think there are a lot of people upset that Corbyn is trying to change the policy.

That's actually very true.

[Inanimate Carbon Rod]

We shouldn't. But I reckon a chunk of SNP voters either see an SNP vote as simply an anti-Tory vote to fight at Westminster and another chunk only see independence as  a vehicle for escaping conservatism. Whereas, I would think if you asked 100 Irish people, would you rather endure 100 years of continuous "conservative" policies from the Dail or reunite with a Labour controlled UK , all 100 would give you a pretty clear answer.

At least the election result would be the choice of the irish electorate if that was the case. Surely if they were voting for a ‘conservative’ Dail then they’d not vite to rejoin a Labour UK?