What is the point of Labour ?

[Jacksgranda]

On 29/09/2019 at 23:40, pandarilla said:

His position in the referendum was perfectly legitimate. It was essentially: 'The EU is a neoliberal organisation and is far from perfect from a socialist standpoint, but on balance I'm voting remain because the alternative will be far worse."

Now he's sitting on the fence to try and not alienate a shit-load of Labour Leave voters.

You can't genuinely believe that he wouldn't favour left wing policies for the citizens of France or Estonia. But he's the leader of the Labour party and this is not a black and white issue.

Is that not what Brexit was all about?

[dorlomin]

10 hours ago, ICTJohnboy said:

I wouldn't describe him as unpopular

http://britainelects.com/polling/preferred-pm/

He almost never breaks 20% of people wanting to see him PM and has the lowest approval rating of any leader of the opposition in the history of polling. 

https://www.politicshome.com/news/uk/political-parties/labour-party/jeremy-corbyn/news/106687/jeremy-corbyn-most-unpopular

Those polling numbers come close to Labours performance in the European elections. 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2019_European_Parliament_election_in_the_United_Kingdom

13%

Under him Labour relies almost exclusively on fear of a tory majority to drag deeply reluctant voters back to them come polling day. Between the election campaigns they languish as unloved to outright loathed by the vast majority of the country. 

[dorlomin]

1 hour ago, Granny Danger said:

I have issues with Corbyn because of certain qualities that he sadly lacks; many people use that as an excuse when it’s really the policies that they disagree with.

I’d prefer a more capable leader who supports broadly the same policies.

The dithering fuckwit who the morning after the EU referendum was demanding an immediate enacting of article 50

Quote

Jeremy Corbyn has said Article 50 must be invoked immediately and that a Leave vote prevailed because of anger against marginalisation and austerity.

He said the result of the poll means the exit clause – Article 50, which would give a two year period for Britain to leave – must be observed as soon as possible in an interview with the BBC.

“The British people have made their decision. We must respect that result and Article 50 has to be invoked now so that we negotiate an exit from European Union.

“Obviously there has to be strategy but the whole point of the referendum was that the public would be asked their opinion. They’ve given their opinion. It is up for parliament to now act on that opinion.

 

https://labourlist.org/2016/06/corbyn-article-50-has-to-be-invoked-now/

 

[Jacksgranda]

2 hours ago, Bob Mahelp said:

That's the point though. It's not just the MSM who are 'shit scared of a radical Labour government'.....it's voters.

The last 'radical Labour government' was probably just after the 2nd world war. There is not, and almost without exception never has been, majority support in the UK for a radical left-wing government. 

Given the horrendous direction we're heading under the Tories, the last thing the UK needed was a weak and feeble opposition led by a socialist college lecturer.  If Labour are serious about forming a government.....and I'm beginning to believe that they don't care all that much about that.....then they'll have to become a bit less 'radical' and more centrist I'm afraid. 

That's the long and short of it. And I ask again....what do Labour supporters actually want, a party that sticks to a left-wing ideology and is in permanent opposition, or do they actually want a Labour PM and government ?

 

If Labour have to alter their policies to get into government they won't be radical so what's the point.

Might as well vote in the full strength rather than the diluted.

Edited November 8, 2019 by Jacksgranda

[Granny Danger]

Just now, Jacksgranda said:

If Labour have to alter their policies to get into government they won't be radical so what's the point.

This.  

What sort of person would trust a political party who would change their policies to win votes? 

[Jacksgranda]

1 minute ago, Granny Danger said:

This.  

What sort of person would trust a political party who would change their policies to win votes? 

Most of them do!

[dorlomin]

1 minute ago, Granny Danger said:

What sort of person would trust a political party who would change their policies to win votes? 

This is literally how democracy is supposed to work. 

[Granny Danger]

4 minutes ago, Jacksgranda said:

Most of them do!

Don’t think so.  They might change parties as an increasing number of people have done in the last decade.

[Detournement]

Waiting 9 months to invoke A50 was definitely a masterstroke. I'm glad they didn't do it straight away, f**k knows what would have happened

[sophia]

2 hours ago, Detournement said:

Waiting 9 months to invoke A50 was definitely a masterstroke. I'm glad they didn't do it straight away, f**k knows what would have happened

Freud likes this

 

[Guest Bob Mahelp]

2 hours ago, Jacksgranda said:

If Labour have to alter their policies to get into government they won't be radical so what's the point.

Might as well vote in the full strength rather than the diluted.

 

2 hours ago, Granny Danger said:

This.  

What sort of person would trust a political party who would change their policies to win votes? 

Great. Labour shouldn't alter their policies.

My question is answered then. Labour members/supporters prefer to permanently fail as student socialists rather than form a government as realistic centrists. 

And thanks to that blinkered ideology, Labour are about to usher in the most right-wing government in UK history.

Cheers Jeremy. 

 

 

 

[pandarilla]

Great. Labour shouldn't alter their policies.
My question is answered then. Labour members/supporters prefer to permanently fail as student socialists rather than form a government as realistic centrists. 
And thanks to that blinkered ideology, Labour are about to usher in the most right-wing government in UK history.
Cheers Jeremy. 
 
 
 

They've failed since 2010 at the centrist pish.

Go bold or go home. 1945 Atlee all over again.

[D Angelo Barksdale]

2 hours ago, Bob Mahelp said:

 

Great. Labour shouldn't alter their policies.

My question is answered then. Labour members/supporters prefer to permanently fail as student socialists rather than form a government as realistic centrists. 

And thanks to that blinkered ideology, Labour are about to usher in the most right-wing government in UK history.

Cheers Jeremy. 

 

 

 

What policies would you like to see dropped from the Labour manifesto and what centrist policies would you prefer they adopted ?

[welshbairn]

2 hours ago, pandarilla said:

They've failed since 2010 at the centrist pish.

Go bold or go home. 1945 Atlee all over again.

This. The convention that holding the middle ground is the only route to power has gone out the window after sensible Blairism's deregulation of the City brought us the Crash and that nice Mr Cameron decided the poor would pick up the tab. 

[GordonS]

This entire age-old argument about whether a party should be true to its roots and its members, or compromise in the name of seeking power, only exists because of the completely fucking stupid electoral system we have. It wouldn't be out of place in a banana republic. When every vote counts the same then parties are free to seek votes from wherever. Instead, our elections are decided mostly by swing voters in middle England who choose between Labour and Tory like they're choosing between Nandos and Pizza Hut.

[git-intae-thum]

32 minutes ago, welshbairn said:

This. The convention that holding the middle ground is the only route to power has gone out the window after sensible Blairism's deregulation of the City brought us the Crash and that nice Mr Cameron decided the poor would pick up the tab. 

In fairness Toom Tabard Broon started the government in that direction before Cameron speeded up the austerity drive

[Fullerene]

If Labour won an election then it can define the narrative and define what is regarded as normal.

It has a much better chance of influencing opinion than it ever can in opposition.

Once elected it can move opinion to the left.  By comparison every time the Tories get elected they can move opinion further to the right.

The next Labour government doesn't have to be the most radical in history but with each win it can move in that direction.

[dorlomin]

1974 was the last time a Labour leader other than Tony Blair won a general election. 

We did have one non FPTP election in the UK this year, the European Elections. Far from a tidal wave of support coming out to back up the new direction of the party, it was a catastrophe. 

People come on here trying to load the questions to "which policy from their manifesto would you change". Its pettyfoogging and picking up pennies in front of the bulldozer. 

Scotland is about the most leftwing part of the UK, once fortress Labour, now they are likely to end up 4th. It is not one policy or another, it is the over all stench of incompetence, arrogance, tone deafness and self absorption. It is in a shambolic mess, 3 sitting MPs were refused national endorsement for a variety of reasons and 3 more accepted candidates have had to be stood down over previous comments. Another selected candidate has been bounced out by the Momentum faction to parachute in a mate of theirs. There are a host of other candidates who currently are in the press for all the wrong reasons. These do not play as big issues in the national press but they are playing out in the regional press, especially the midlands which is really crucial to who ever will form the next government. 

It has descended into being a party of amateur activists driven by their pet agendas that are often very far removed from the daily lives of the voters they seek to win. 

The supporters of the leadership (including on here) are pretty open abut their contempt for most of the people in the UK. 

The party is completely lacking in any sense of discipline or focus. 

The SNP have not steamrollered them out of Scotland because they have one policy on economics or another on health care people like, they have done so because they turn up to Hollyrood and sound like people who care more about when your bins get emptied and allocating budget to spend on road repair than about "big issue" politics in far off lands. 

We are facing Brexit, the sell off of the NHS, gerrymandering the seats to 500 so make the elections easier for the Tories and a host of other shite largely because the Labour party are incompetent buffoons who the vast majority of people in the country would not touch with a broomstick. This has been said ad nauseum. 

The Labour membership largely respond with conspiracy theories and self pity, because that wins elections or something. 

The SNP and LDs might yet gain enough Tory seats between them to prevent a majority government. These are the straws I am left with to grasp at. 

[O'Kelly Isley III]

1974 was the last time a Labour leader other than Tony Blair won a general election. 
We did have one non FPTP election in the UK this year, the European Elections. Far from a tidal wave of support coming out to back up the new direction of the party, it was a catastrophe. 
People come on here trying to load the questions to "which policy from their manifesto would you change". Its pettyfoogging and picking up pennies in front of the bulldozer. 
Scotland is about the most leftwing part of the UK, once fortress Labour, now they are likely to end up 4th. It is not one policy or another, it is the over all stench of incompetence, arrogance, tone deafness and self absorption. It is in a shambolic mess, 3 sitting MPs were refused national endorsement for a variety of reasons and 3 more accepted candidates have had to be stood down over previous comments. Another selected candidate has been bounced out by the Momentum faction to parachute in a mate of theirs. There are a host of other candidates who currently are in the press for all the wrong reasons. These do not play as big issues in the national press but they are playing out in the regional press, especially the midlands which is really crucial to who ever will form the next government. 
It has descended into being a party of amateur activists driven by their pet agendas that are often very far removed from the daily lives of the voters they seek to win. 
The supporters of the leadership (including on here) are pretty open abut their contempt for most of the people in the UK. 
The party is completely lacking in any sense of discipline or focus. 
The SNP have not steamrollered them out of Scotland because they have one policy on economics or another on health care people like, they have done so because they turn up to Hollyrood and sound like people who care more about when your bins get emptied and allocating budget to spend on road repair than about "big issue" politics in far off lands. 
We are facing Brexit, the sell off of the NHS, gerrymandering the seats to 500 so make the elections easier for the Tories and a host of other shite largely because the Labour party are incompetent buffoons who the vast majority of people in the country would not touch with a broomstick. This has been said ad nauseum. 
The Labour membership largely respond with conspiracy theories and self pity, because that wins elections or something. 
The SNP and LDs might yet gain enough Tory seats between them to prevent a majority government. These are the straws I am left with to grasp at. 

Hmmmm... it's a great shame the LD's have chosen a leader who is more suited to being a Guide Leader than ever forming a Government.

[Granny Danger]

Now the traitorous c**t Blunkett is flapping his jaws.  It’s like a coordinated attempt by Labour’s establishment to get the boot in.

It’s laughable that Blunkett was seen as a rebel in his early days.