What is the point of Labour ?

[DeeTillEhDeh]

The LibDems would be crazy to support them.  It would be political and electoral suicide if they did.  They have only got away with it this time because of their stance on Brexit; they wouldn’t get away with it again. If the Tories ended up as the largest party but without a majority they would be obliged to form a minority government, unless Labour, the SNP and some smaller parties collectively outnumbered them.  I don’t think that will happen.

The minority Tory government would try, and fail, to get agreement on Brexit then there might be a reluctant majority for some sort of referendum rather than a further GE.

Sadly I think it will be a majority Tory government.  I really hope I’m wrong.

 

Latest odds are interesting. 

Tory majority - Evens

 

No overall majority - 13/10

 

Not the sure thing that some are saying.

 

Brexit Party may well decide this - even a poorish performance - say 10% of the vote - could cause the Tories to lose sitting MPs or not win seats they expect to win. That combined with Tory losses in Scotland, London and the South West could very well lead to another hung Parliament.

 

I wonder if Boris is safe himself in his constituency - I'd be tempted to have a pact just to do that - a single Remain candidate against him.

 

 

 

[JamieThomas]

1 hour ago, pandarilla said:

I think you're both underestimating him.

If the election is a disaster them fair enough, he'll be replaced. But the last one was a surprise.

He's had more PR disasters than Jeffrey Dahmer had bodies. Only one of them managed to bury them, however.

Edit: I'd better edit this point out that I, and any other normal fucking human being, shouldn't care about PR disasters - but god bless the UK eh.

Edited October 29, 2019 by JamieThomas

[Stellaboz]

He's a piece of shit, basically saying that the SNP introduced the rape clause. He's right there for all to see, a stoog to keep the Tories in power.

[pandarilla]

He's had more PR disasters than Jeffrey Dahmer had bodies. Only one of them managed to bury them, however.
Edit: I'd better edit this point out that I, and any other normal fucking human being, shouldn't care about PR disasters - but god bless the UK eh.

Pr disasters?

There hasn't ever been a media campaign this sustained. It's ridiculous.

All politicians have this shit but the friends in high places go a long way.

[Benjamin_Nevis]

14 minutes ago, Stellaboz said:

He's a piece of shit, basically saying that the SNP introduced the rape clause. He's right there for all to see, a stoog to keep the Tories in power.

That was particularly shameless, however I don't think he'll swing many voters with that drivel. No one outside hardcore Laeburr voters in Scotland take Corbyn or his branch office manager particularly seriously as "leaders". 

Labour will be absolutely rinsed in Scotland if there's a GE in December. It'll be thoroughly enjoyable. 

 

[Guest Bob Mahelp]

46 minutes ago, pandarilla said:

Pr disasters?

There hasn't ever been a media campaign this sustained. It's ridiculous.

All politicians have this shit but the friends in high places go a long way.

There's no doubt that Corbyn is a fairly decent conviction politician, but for good or for bad you can't get away from the fact that perception in politics is vital to your hopes of success.

Michael Foot was one of the best politicians of his generation, but he'll be remembered mostly for a bumbling speech in a donkey jacket at a time when the Tories were adopting slick American publicity tactics. 

William Hague was seen as a weird, swatty, little public schoolboy stuck in the 19th century when placed alongside the modernising Tony Blair. 

The 'Corbyn bounce' managed to save Labour 2 years ago, but the perception of Corbyn now amongst the mainstream public is of an indecisive, mumbling Socialist. He may have some decent policies, but nobody knows what they are because he lacks the skills to get people to listen. 

The UK public will go to the polls soon with very few believing that he can lead. It's hard to picture him as a PM. 

And because of that Labour (and the country as a whole) will suffer. 

[dirty dingus]

22 minutes ago, Bob Mahelp said:

There's no doubt that Corbyn is a fairly decent conviction politician, but for good or for bad you can't get away from the fact that perception in politics is vital to your hopes of success.

Michael Foot was one of the best politicians of his generation, but he'll be remembered mostly for a bumbling speech in a donkey jacket at a time when the Tories were adopting slick American publicity tactics. 

William Hague was seen as a weird, swatty, little public schoolboy stuck in the 19th century when placed alongside the modernising Tony Blair. 

The 'Corbyn bounce' managed to save Labour 2 years ago, but the perception of Corbyn now amongst the mainstream public is of an indecisive, mumbling Socialist. He may have some decent policies, but nobody knows what they are because he lacks the skills to get people to listen. 

The UK public will go to the polls soon with very few believing that he can lead. It's hard to picture him as a PM. 

And because of that Labour (and the country as a whole) will suffer. 

Labour blew it with their dithering on Brexit. Corbyn should have been booted about a year ago. His PMQs against May were woeful doing everthing he could to avoid challanging on Brexit. They should have sacraficed Nandy,Flint and Jarvis and the rest of the brexit mob and stood as a 2nd referendum party on a soft btrxit v stay option.

[ICTJohnboy]

Margaret Hodge has been reselected for her constituency.

Isn't it great that she can continue to be part of the great labour movement despite the fact that they have a "Marxist, anti semitic, racist leader, who has allowed anti-Jewish prejudice to flourish within its ranks"

Good that she's found the party that's right for her.

[D Angelo Barksdale]

As much as I agree with him on most issues, I think Corbyn's time is almost up. The big question is whether his successor continues down the road of democratic socialism, or if Labour returns to the Blairite route.

2 hours ago, Bob Mahelp said:

but for good or for bad you can't get away from the fact that perception in politics is vital to your hopes of success.

Very much this unfortunately. There's been no single 'gotcha' or silver bullet fired by his detractors to finish him off. It's been a consistant campaign since he was elected, to misrepresent and undermine him to the point where the perception is that Corbyn's Labour are now unelectable.

[Detournement]

If you judge 'leadership' as how a party leader is portrayed in the media then a left wing politician can never succeed on that criteria. No one is going to step up who is genuinely left wing that the state and corporate media will declare as acceptable. 

Corbyn obviously isn't perfect but the massive thing he has going for him is that you can be 100% certain he won't back down under pressure from the finance sector or the military industry complex. That is why people trust him and no one else has proven that they would be able to stand up under the kind of attacks he has faced. 

[WhiteRoseKillie]

If you judge 'leadership' as how a party leader is portrayed in the media then a left wing politician can never succeed on that criteria. No one is going to step up who is genuinely left wing that the state and corporate media will declare as acceptable. 
Corbyn obviously isn't perfect but the massive thing he has going for him is that you can be 100% certain he won't back down under pressure from the finance sector or the military industry complex. That is why people trust him and no one else has proven that they would be able to stand up under the kind of attacks he has faced. 

Abso-fucking-lutely. Corbyn is such an ineffectual and shambolic opposition leader that the Government have been ritually humiliated with an unprecedented regularity, they have lost their majority, they cannot get any kind of legislation passed - and Corbyn is currently in the process of breaking a third Tory PM.
The vilification he has received from the media has been disgraceful, but even the most rabid are noticing the desperation. Not watching rugby makes him a traitor? Aye, right.

[Suspect Device]

Scottish Labour's website is the only one that I've looked at that doesn't have a main story slagging the opposition. I was very impressed. A massive difference between that and the Scottish Tory's site which is just an anti SNP/indyref2 polemic.

Not that I will be voting for wither of them. I just hate the negative campaigning. It's as if they have nothing positive to put forward for Scotland they only have the tactic of attacking the SNP. I'm by no means an SNP supporter but I am voting for them this time.

[dirty dingus]

Labour eating itself in the East End. Kate Watson isn't getting much love.

https://theclarionmag.org/2018/06/02/glasgow-east-selection-the-inside-story-2/?fbclid=IwAR3f9T6fAqd_6bZcU7uGb33pl084Qs6XK9kRjf2sDH1m-bGvY3ScDbIB9k4

Edited November 4, 2019 by dirty dingus

[Granny Danger]

Richard Leonard is one of the worst leaders of the branch office.  That’s a fairly high/low target.

 

[NorthernLights]

The branch office kicking off their Westminster election campaign with a pledge that even a Labour majority at Westminster can't deliver.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-50315660

[ICTJohnboy]

Tom Watson standing down

 

[WhiteRoseKillie]

Tom Watson standing down
 

Excellent news, although about two years too late for me.

[ICTJohnboy]

6 minutes ago, WhiteRoseKillie said:

10 minutes ago, ICTJohnboy said:

Tom Watson standing down
 

Excellent news, although about two years too late for me.

 

Inclined to agree - not sure about the timing.

[doulikefish]

Watson will be in the ermine robes soon

[Zetterlund]

Shat his pants at the prospect of losing his seat to George Galloway?