What is the point of Labour ?

[welshbairn]

Jenny Chapman performs better than most in interviews, and unusually for Labour backs the Corbyn line, on Brexit at least. She used to be vice chair of Progress though, which probably rules her out.

[Detournement]

1 hour ago, Granny Danger said:

Name a competent female MP who is likely to get the backing of those needed to become Labour Party leader.

 

Pidcock. Rayner. Long-Bailey. Butler. 

[pandarilla]

The worst, the most inept, useless Tory Govt in my lifetime, and that includes the Thatcher/Heath eras, looks set to romp home come the next GE.
Why?
There's been not a scrap of opposition. Who would you blame for that? When will it dawn on anyone within the Labour Party that the only way they're going to make any progress is by ditching Corbyn.  What does it take for the message to get through?
 
 

What should have been their tactic on Brexit?

They're in an impossible position, much like the Tories. Johnson has split them and not looked back but that might bite him in the arse.

Corbyn has tried to sit on the fence but any other tactic would've massively split the party.

[Granny Danger]

15 minutes ago, Fullerene said:

I'm not so sure.  If Labour loses the next election then that will be four in a row. Somebody will say "we need to stop talking about Left and Right and start tallking about Winning because it is only by winning that we can actually change anything".  IMO even those who thought Corbyn was a breath of fresh air would listen.

It doesn’t work on the basis that “somebody will say...”.  The Labour Party has taken years to get rid of the right wingers; they’re not going to invite them back.

Hopefully a competent, left-of-centre leader will emerge and McLuskey pops his clogs.

[Detournement]

Hopefully the most successful trade union leader in the UK pops his clogs. FFS

[DeeTillEhDeh]

Hopefully the most successful trade union leader in the UK pops his clogs. FFS

McCluskey is fucking dinosaur who has held back the labour movement not made it progress.

 

[Fullerene]

32 minutes ago, Granny Danger said:

It doesn’t work on the basis that “somebody will say...”.  The Labour Party has taken years to get rid of the right wingers; they’re not going to invite them back.

Hopefully a competent, left-of-centre leader will emerge and McLuskey pops his clogs.

If they could get rid of the right wingers and also win an election then I would get your point.  However after losing four elections, Labour becomes an irrelevant cult or they choose a leader who can win an election.  It doesn't have to be a right winger.  Just not someone who boasts about coming a glorious second.

[Highlandmagyar 2nd Tier]

2 hours ago, Granny Danger said:

Name a competent female MP who is likely to get the backing of those needed to become Labour Party leader.

 

The only one I can think of is Yvette Cooper.

[Granny Danger]

2 minutes ago, Fullerene said:

If they could get rid of the right wingers and also win an election then I would get your point.  However after losing four elections, Labour becomes an irrelevant cult or they choose a leader who can win an election.  It doesn't have to be a right winger.  Just not someone who boasts about coming a glorious second.

I don’t think that is an argument for democracy.  I’d rather a Labour Party offering s genuine alternative, we’ve not had that for a long time.

If people don’t want it they will vote against it.  There were more people willing to do that until Corbyn’s incompetence shone through.

 

[Highlandmagyar 2nd Tier]

48 minutes ago, Stellaboz said:

Older voters can gtf, they should stop being able to vote at 50

I'm all for that if it means I don't pay income tax.

[O'Kelly Isley III]

If they could get rid of the right wingers and also win an election then I would get your point.  However after losing four elections, Labour becomes an irrelevant cult or they choose a leader who can win an election.  It doesn't have to be a right winger.  Just not someone who boasts about coming a glorious second.

You are all missing the point. Labour under Corbyn has long ceased to be a conventional political party and seems content to luxuriate in its own ideological purity. As such they will be undeterred by another electoral hiding, in the process being relieved of any responsibility or requirement to live in the real world.

They will eventually attract only those swivel-eyed fanatics who venerate people like Len McLuskey.

[GAD]

There needs to be an election, there is no government at the moment, nobody is running the country. Labour making excuses not to have one is a shit look and just makes them look even weaker. If they can't win an election that is the fault of Labour, nobody else. We've got a three month extension to Brexit now, this is the time.

[Fullerene]

15 minutes ago, Granny Danger said:

I don’t think that is an argument for democracy.  I’d rather a Labour Party offering s genuine alternative, we’ve not had that for a long time.

If people don’t want it they will vote against it.  There were more people willing to do that until Corbyn’s incompetence shone through.

Yes I get it  People don't want Labour to be the Tory reserves when the first team needs a break. 

At the same time, they don't want a Labour party where the leadership sees the main threat as people from his own party.

Other parties don't suffer from these complications.  Why does Labour?

[welshbairn]

3 hours ago, Detournement said:

The date is a huge problem. If you end up with horrible weather it will definitely work against Labour and in favour of the Tories. 

78% turnout in the last* winter election (Feb 74) and Labour increased their seats. It hasn't happened enough to show any advantage either way, but I'm hoping for a cold snap and icy pavements.

*think so anyway.

[Fullerene]

19 minutes ago, O'Kelly Isley III said:

You are all missing the point. Labour under Corbyn has long ceased to be a conventional political party and seems content to luxuriate in its own ideological purity. As such they will be undeterred by another electoral hiding, in the process being relieved of any responsibility or requirement to live in the real world.

They will eventually attract only those swivel-eyed fanatics who venerate people like Len McLuskey.

Not surehow I am missing the pointernet since I totally agree with you.

Labour needs to appeal to people who are not part of the club, cult, sect, whatever.

Edited October 28, 2019 by Fullerene

[O'Kelly Isley III]

Not surehow I am missing the pointernet since I totally agree with you.
Labour needs to appeal to people who are not part of the club, cult, sect, whatever.

Apologies, it's just that whilst I currently crave a Labour win over the Tories, with the SNP bleaching Scotland, the reality of the situation is that Labour is in the electoral wilderness, the tragedy being that is is almost wholly of their own making.

[Fullerene]

8 minutes ago, O'Kelly Isley III said:

19 minutes ago, Fullerene said:

Not surehow I am missing the pointernet since I totally agree with you.
Labour needs to appeal to people who are not part of the club, cult, sect, whatever.

Apologies, it's just that whilst I currently crave a Labour win over the Tories, with the SNP bleaching Scotland, the reality of the situation is that Labour is in the electoral wilderness, the tragedy being that is is almost wholly of their own making.

A Labour party offering a genuine alternative without a "enemies within our midst" narrative would be good.

[doulikefish]

Just noticed that comrade jezza was lying in motherwell at the weekend

[Guest Bob Mahelp]

1 hour ago, O'Kelly Isley III said:

You are all missing the point. Labour under Corbyn has long ceased to be a conventional political party and seems content to luxuriate in its own ideological purity. As such they will be undeterred by another electoral hiding, in the process being relieved of any responsibility or requirement to live in the real world.

They will eventually attract only those swivel-eyed fanatics who venerate people like Len McLuskey.

Since their formation, with the odd exception, Labour have been the party of permanent opposition. They almost luxuriate in it.

The people that Labour say they represent.....the 'working class'....hardly exist these days. Well, not in the conventional sense. I still think Corbyn believes that your 'working class' Labour voter works in manufacturing and is a union member. He/she votes Labour because his/her mum and dad voted Labour and Corbyn and his cult believes that they always will.

These days are gone. Your average 'working class' voter these days owns his house, has never met anybody that works in manufacturing or is in a union, has Sky and Netflix, wants a bigger car and is much more concerned with getting the immigrants out than he is with improving the living conditions of his fellow working man.

Labour in Scotland have been obliterated because traditional Labour voters gravitated towards a progressive SNP that hold the middle ground in the Scottish political scene. I suspect that Labour voters in the rest of the UK will jump ship soon as well....and because there is no real 'centre ground' party in English politics many of them will simply follow their prejudices and vote for the Brexit party or the Tories. 

If Nicola Sturgeon was leader of UK Labour, they would romp home at the next election. But obviously she would be far too right-wing for the cult.

Edited October 28, 2019 by Bob Mahelp

[JamieThomas]

1 hour ago, O'Kelly Isley III said:

You are all missing the point. Labour under Corbyn has long ceased to be a conventional political party and seems content to luxuriate in its own ideological purity. As such they will be undeterred by another electoral hiding, in the process being relieved of any responsibility or requirement to live in the real world.

They will eventually attract only those swivel-eyed fanatics who venerate people like Len McLuskey.

I'm a swivel eyed fanatic, and tbh I get the absolute seethe whenever anyone describes the current Labour party as any kind of demarcation of Marx/Trots etc etc. They're about as far left as the SNP.

If folk want their two main parties to be right and centre right, then take a gander at the relentless shitshow over here where at least they have the "excuse" of all being fucked to the eyeballs with Jesus all their lives.