What is the point of Labour ?

[GiGi]

Starmer managing to snatch defeat when there isn't even a game scheduled is a new level of Labour fail.

[HTG]

1 hour ago, orfc said:

Classic futile and stupid gesture from some Labour wonks

Give it 12 months they could have had a real say in this and other foreign policy, except the likes of Jess Phillips would rather quit again in opposition (did it under Corbyn too). Classic 6th form gesture politician.

Or ... they could have taken a completely reasonable humanitarian position and voted for a ceasefire and still cantered an election in 12 months time. Instead they opted not to bother their arse about the ongoing slaughter of thousands of innocent people and continued to try to appeal to Tory England. It's absolutely possible to condemn Hamas whilst calling for a halt on something that results in innocent kids getting slaughtered. 

Next up - a 3 line whip to vote for the UK's withdrawal from the ECHR.

Edited November 16, 2023 by HTG

[Cheese]

1 hour ago, orfc said:

Give it 12 months they could have had a real say in this and other foreign policy,

Lmao.

UK foreign policy is run from Washington m8.

[TheScarf]

6 hours ago, GiGi said:

Starmer managing to snatch defeat when there isn't even a game scheduled is a new level of Labour fail.

The title of this thread has never been so apt as it is now. An absolute joke of a political party.

[Leith Green]

9 hours ago, DeeTillEhDeh said:

So the branch office followed orders.

Ian Murray just does what he's told. 

He is trembling with excitement at the the thought of being given a very junior post when Labour win the next GE. 

He's my MP, and a total p***k.

[oneteaminglasgow]

Give me gesture politics over an unprincipled charlatan every day of the week.

If Joe Biden comes out in favour of a ceasefire tomorrow, what do we reckon the chances of Starmer maintaining his current position are? I’ll start the bidding at “no fucking chance” 

[orfc]

12 minutes ago, oneteaminglasgow said:

Give me gesture politics over an unprincipled charlatan every day of the week.

If Joe Biden comes out in favour of a ceasefire tomorrow, what do we reckon the chances of Starmer maintaining his current position are? I’ll start the bidding at “no fucking chance” 

Gesture politics is all Jess Phillips will be doing from now on. Having quit under the last 2 labour leaders she won't be given another chance.

You might as well have had a vote on impeaching Trump for all the real world effect it would have

 

[Highlandmagar]

58 minutes ago, orfc said:

Gesture politics is all Jess Phillips will be doing from now on. Having quit under the last 2 labour leaders she won't be given another chance.

You might as well have had a vote on impeaching Trump for all the real world effect it would have

 

Maybe she is showing more conviction than her Tory leader.

[Dunning1874]

Particularly strange from Murray and Shanks. I seem to recall the position being stated and restated over and over again in the Rutherglen by-election campaign that any Labour MPs elected in Scotland represent Scottish Labour, and where the positions of UK Labour and Scottish Labour diverge they'd vote with the Scottish Labour position. The stated position of the Scottish Labour leadership is to support a ceasefire but lo and behold, they wouldn't vote for it. Maybe they both just strongly object to a ceasefire as a matter of conscience. Curious!

[scottsdad]

There are two layers of nuance here and a colossal mistake by Starmer at the end of it.

First, to de-Corbynise Labour Starter has had to do a lot of work to make it a party where Jews feel safe again. During Corbyn's time as leader a whole load of anti-semitism erupted and that was really damaging. With the Hamas attack the instant Labour position was made simple - Israel was a victim and Labour was standing by it.  

Second, what came next. Israel's extreme over-reaction which is verging on war crimes. There are many Labour MPs who are naturally sympathetic to Palestinians, and yet more who have strong Muslim populations in their constituencies. Since October 7 the depth of feeling here has gotten deeper. 

This left Starmer in a sticky position of both trying to show that is is pro-Israel and also pro-Palestinian. All he had to do yesterday was allow people to vote with their conscience and it wuldn;t have even made the papers. On a day when the Tories were forming a circular firing squad, Labour steal the headlines with shadow ministers resigning or being sacked. 

[orfc]

2 hours ago, Highlandmagar said:

Maybe she is showing more conviction than her Tory leader.

Jeremy Corbyn had a lot of conviction too, fat lot of good it did him or the country. It's just a strange mindset of people who'd rather be pure in opposition than maybe found out lacking when in power 

Its like the bit in Life of Brian where the squad runs up to the crosses and commit suicide instead of saving anyone.

Anyways SIR KEIR STARMER KC PM 2024 it will be, and now with less weak links in the first eleven

 

[CambieBud]

7 minutes ago, orfc said:

Jeremy Corbyn had a lot of conviction too, fat lot of good it did him or the country. It's just a strange mindset of people who'd rather be pure in opposition than maybe found out lacking when in power 

Its like the bit in Life of Brian where the squad runs up to the crosses and commit suicide instead of saving anyone.

Anyways SIR KEIR STARMER KC PM 2024 it will be, and now with less weak links in the first eleven

 

I’m sure you’re correct in that Sir Manofthepeople Starmer will be the next U.K. PM. However, what is the point of being elected at any cost, with no discernible policy differences from the present government. New Boss, same as the old boss. 
Remember when listening to his Stalinist approach to last nights vote, that this man was a Human Rights Lawyer! 

Edited November 16, 2023 by CambieBud

[MazzyStar]

54 minutes ago, scottsdad said:

There are two layers of nuance here and a colossal mistake by Starmer at the end of it.

First, to de-Corbynise Labour Starter has had to do a lot of work to make it a party where Jews feel safe again. During Corbyn's time as leader a whole load of anti-semitism erupted and that was really damaging. With the Hamas attack the instant Labour position was made simple - Israel was a victim and Labour was standing by it.  

Second, what came next. Israel's extreme over-reaction which is verging on war crimes. There are many Labour MPs who are naturally sympathetic to Palestinians, and yet more who have strong Muslim populations in their constituencies. Since October 7 the depth of feeling here has gotten deeper. 

This left Starmer in a sticky position of both trying to show that is is pro-Israel and also pro-Palestinian. All he had to do yesterday was allow people to vote with their conscience and it wuldn;t have even made the papers. On a day when the Tories were forming a circular firing squad, Labour steal the headlines with shadow ministers resigning or being sacked. 

“Verging on war crimes” ffs. 

[RuMoore]

1 hour ago, CambieBud said:

I’m sure you’re correct in that Sir Manofthepeople Starmer will be the next U.K. PM. However, what is the point of being elected at any cost, with no discernible policy differences from the present government. New Boss, same as the old boss. 
Remember when listening to his Stalinist approach to last nights vote, that this man was a Human Rights Lawyer! 

This is correct logically but completely lazy and inapplicable when taking more than 2 seconds to note the differences between Labour in its present form and the Conservatives in their present form. 

[effeffsee_the2nd]

I think we are all ignoring the elephant in the room,

This vote is a complete and utter waste of everyone's time and has absolutely no effect on the real world situation in Gaza because Israel is not beholden to the UK or any other parliament. They don't even care about the UN or international law, they will do as they see fit.  The only possible outside influence that might change the situation would be very serious pressure from the US, which isn't happening.

 

I actually laughed out loud last week when the news announced that the welsh government had called for a ceasefire! could just imagine all those commanders franticly trying to get orders to the front line.. "stop! Stop! hold your fire! what serg? "the welsh government have voted for a ceasefire! everyone stop where you are

aye ok mark 

[AyrAtlanta]

If Starmer keeps this form for the next 12 months I’d love to see, come election time, what his worshippers can actually say to defend him.

And ‘not the tories’ does not count.

[Cheese]

The votes aren't a waste of time imo. I actually find it quite helpful to note which of our elected representatives are unwilling to make even the smallest gesture towards any attempt to stop ethnic cleansing and the industrial scale killing of civilians.

[oneteaminglasgow]

1 hour ago, effeffsee_the2nd said:

I think we are all ignoring the elephant in the room,

This vote is a complete and utter waste of everyone's time and has absolutely no effect on the real world situation in Gaza because Israel is not beholden to the UK or any other parliament. They don't even care about the UN or international law, they will do as they see fit.  The only possible outside influence that might change the situation would be very serious pressure from the US, which isn't happening.

 

I actually laughed out loud last week when the news announced that the welsh government had called for a ceasefire! could just imagine all those commanders franticly trying to get orders to the front line.. "stop! Stop! hold your fire! what serg? "the welsh government have voted for a ceasefire! everyone stop where you are

aye ok mark 

No the vote wouldn’t have stopped the genocide, but there are definitely concrete steps the U.K. Government could take to prevent it. Stopping the exports of weaponry to Israel, for example.

Symbolism matters anyway. Pardoning people convicted for being gay, for example, is unlikely to make much real world difference but still an important and right thing to do. And, as @Ziggy Sobotka notes, it’s good to see which MPs are opposed on principle to ethnic cleaning and which don’t. 

[GAD]

1 hour ago, Ziggy Sobotka said:

The votes aren't a waste of time imo. I actually find it quite helpful to note which of our elected representatives are unwilling to make even the smallest gesture towards any attempt to stop ethnic cleansing and the industrial scale killing of civilians.

Nah, the votes are not a waste of time. It's important to know where people stand on issues like this, and the UK has been quite happy to call for a ceasefire in other wars. The reason this one is, only now, being declared pointless is because Starmer and the Labour party absolutely shit the bed last night, and this is the best line his yes men can come up with as a "defence" for not voting to say genocide is bad.

[GTG_03]

4 hours ago, scottsdad said:

There are two layers of nuance here and a colossal mistake by Starmer at the end of it.

First, to de-Corbynise Labour Starter has had to do a lot of work to make it a party where Jews feel safe again. During Corbyn's time as leader a whole load of anti-semitism erupted and that was really damaging. With the Hamas attack the instant Labour position was made simple - Israel was a victim and Labour was standing by it.  

Second, what came next. Israel's extreme over-reaction which is verging on war crimes. There are many Labour MPs who are naturally sympathetic to Palestinians, and yet more who have strong Muslim populations in their constituencies. Since October 7 the depth of feeling here has gotten deeper. 

This left Starmer in a sticky position of both trying to show that is is pro-Israel and also pro-Palestinian. All he had to do yesterday was allow people to vote with their conscience and it wuldn;t have even made the papers. On a day when the Tories were forming a circular firing squad, Labour steal the headlines with shadow ministers resigning or being sacked. 

Indiscriminate bombing resulting in the deaths of thousands of innocent people, many of them children.

'Verging on war crimes'