NotThePars Posted November 1, 2018 Share Posted November 1, 2018 It's interesting that people's main argument for the Nazis being socialists involves you taking the Nazi party at their word. 6 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AsimButtHitsASix Posted November 1, 2018 Share Posted November 1, 2018 The Nazis did nationalise banks and the railways when they got in amongst a few other things. Nationalising the banks was part of their campaign manifesto. However... ...nationalisation was all the rage after the great depression. Every state was doing it to protect public services against a volatile market. There was a real fear that capitalism was done from a large proportion of the populace and the government's job woulda been to keep things ticking over if/when capitalism and markets failed. The Nazis had very little choice in the matter if they wanted to continue the recovery of the economy. Whereas the Nazis differed, even ahead of Mussolini's fascists and the ultra-capitalist USA, was they sold everything off as soon as they could. How much of this was due to ideology and how much of it was due to them not really balancing the books and needing the capital to fund the war machine is anybody's guess. And they nationalised the banks because they didn't trust Jews. f**k all to do with socialism. TBH from a purely fiscal point of view fascism isn't entrenched in right wing/capitalist ideology. A fascist party/nation's view on economic policy is almost entirely squared up with populism. It's their belief that having a fascist government in charge will embolden the population and (magically?) create prosperity. Their economic views until they consolidate power blow with the wind in order to get themselves in power. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Detournement Posted November 1, 2018 Share Posted November 1, 2018 7 minutes ago, AsimButtHitsASix said: How much of this was due to ideology and how much of it was due to them not really balancing the books and needing the capital to fund the war machine is anybody's guess. The Nazis used MMT (very successfully). 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miguel Sanchez Posted November 1, 2018 Share Posted November 1, 2018 2 hours ago, welshbairn said: National Socialism =/= Socialism. It's a completely different ideology. They added sozialismus to the name solely to attract working class votes, their policies were utterly antisocialism. But socialism is right there in the name. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
welshbairn Posted November 1, 2018 Share Posted November 1, 2018 2 minutes ago, Miguel Sanchez said: But socialism is right there in the name. I'm not Welsh. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miguel Sanchez Posted November 1, 2018 Share Posted November 1, 2018 1 minute ago, welshbairn said: I'm not Welsh. Nor a Falkirk fan, apparently. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
new kyd in town Posted November 1, 2018 Share Posted November 1, 2018 1 hour ago, Henderson to deliver ..... said: The nazis were socialist is the kind of argument I'd expect banana to make. I think we would both agree that Nazis were and are Fascists. The problem for the left is the first fascist's thinkers were people like Rousseau, Robespierre and Heber et-al. They were the first to institute Terror as a means of control counter-revolution and dechristianization, and favoured the direct intervention of the state in economic matters. Just like the Russian and Chinese Communists. Believe it or not, the French Revolutionary Committee of Public Safety advocated the requisition of wine and grain. Imagine a life where access to alcohol was controlled by the Government. Mussolini was an intellectual socialist and a fascist. Hitler was a right-wing socialist and a fascist. Stalin and Mao were communists, socialists and fascists. Robespierre et-al were fascists, So the left is intrinsically linked to Fascism. -1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
new kyd in town Posted November 1, 2018 Share Posted November 1, 2018 2 hours ago, welshbairn said: It's just a name. The Liberal Party in Australia is more right wing than our Tory Party. It's the policies and what a party does that defines its ideology, not what it calls itself. I think you got that mixed up. It is the ideology of a party members that defines its policies. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Detournement Posted November 1, 2018 Share Posted November 1, 2018 Idiot. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AsimButtHitsASix Posted November 1, 2018 Share Posted November 1, 2018 41 minutes ago, new kyd in town said: Hitler was a right-wing socialist :/ 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
new kyd in town Posted November 1, 2018 Share Posted November 1, 2018 3 hours ago, Detournement said: The Nazis pretty much invented privatizations. They flogged off all the state assets accumulated by the Weimar government to their industrialist backers dirt cheap. 50 years later Thatcher would do the same thing. Thatcher sold the nationalized companies to the public. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
new kyd in town Posted November 1, 2018 Share Posted November 1, 2018 27 minutes ago, Detournement said: Idiot. Strange way to introduce and describe yourself. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D Angelo Barksdale Posted November 1, 2018 Share Posted November 1, 2018 1 hour ago, new kyd in town said: I think we would both agree that Nazis were and are Fascists. The problem for the left is the first fascist's thinkers were people like Rousseau, Robespierre and Heber et-al. They were the first to institute Terror as a means of control counter-revolution and dechristianization, and favoured the direct intervention of the state in economic matters. Just like the Russian and Chinese Communists. Believe it or not, the French Revolutionary Committee of Public Safety advocated the requisition of wine and grain. Imagine a life where access to alcohol was controlled by the Government. Mussolini was an intellectual socialist and a fascist. Hitler was a right-wing socialist and a fascist. Stalin and Mao were communists, socialists and fascists. Robespierre et-al were fascists, So the left is intrinsically linked to Fascism. All in your opinion of course and you're reaching here tbh. Mussolini coined the term and denounced socialism as you well know. If you want to trace fascism back to Rousseau and Robespierre fair enough, but if so, we could and should go much further back in time. It's only 'intrinsically linked to the left' if you subscribe to the horseshoe theory and the only 'problem for the left' is summed up by Not the Pars here .... On 22/10/2018 at 18:08, NotThePars said: The main difference on the left is whether you want to organise the state to punch nazis or whether you take time out of your weekend to go do it yourself 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArabianKnight Posted November 1, 2018 Share Posted November 1, 2018 Oh my days. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DA Baracus Posted November 1, 2018 Share Posted November 1, 2018 new kdy is pretty much on the verge of saying that the Nazis were alright. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Venom Posted November 1, 2018 Share Posted November 1, 2018 Extraordinary the lengths people will go to lump each and every terrible c**t or cunty event throughout history to the left. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
banana Posted November 1, 2018 Share Posted November 1, 2018 Extraordinary the lengths people will go to sweep sweep the terrible c**t or cunty events evident throughout the history of the left. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
banana Posted November 1, 2018 Share Posted November 1, 2018 5 hours ago, NotThePars said: It's interesting that people's main argument for the Nazis being socialists involves you taking the Nazi party at their word. Do/Don't take the National Socialists at their word. Do/Don't take Communists at their word. Do/Don't take Islam at its word. Etc etc, switch at will at the required moment to fit the required pet narrative, amirite 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NotThePars Posted November 1, 2018 Share Posted November 1, 2018 new kdy in town or whatever his name just reminded me of postmodernism and how Jordan Peterson thinks postmodernism and Marxism are the same thing. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doulikefish Posted November 1, 2018 Share Posted November 1, 2018 new kdy in town or whatever his name just reminded me of postmodernism and how Jordan Peterson thinks postmodernism and Marxism are the same thing. Phils beating him on memes though 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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