The normalisation of the far-right continues

[Granny Danger]

50 minutes ago, Brother Blades said:

I’d take issue that we (Scots), have a strong culture of dissent,  we just simply don’t & certainly not in great numbers. 
Maybe historically we did, with strong Trade Unions etc, but now? No chance, we are completely subservient to our overlords from down south, if this wasn’t the case we’d be Independent by now. 
Also the final part of that paragraph…. Did you miss the entire Arab spring a few years back? 

 

19 minutes ago, BFTD said:

This is why we have freezers.

I'd argue we might have reached the zenith of that progress, and are about to see some of those advances reversed. Our politicians seem very keen to play to the "ain't no black in the Union Jack, Adam and Eve not Adam and Steve" element. Hopefully I'm wrong, but there's a reason why some of the most sinister figures in UK politics are champing at the bit to get out of the ECHR (in the news again this week, I see).

I'm inclined to agree with Brother Blades about a culture of dissent; over the past forty years protesting has been successfully framed as a nuisance that needs to be stamped out, and it's something that Labour, the Tories, and REFUK are quite happy to pursue. Most people seem quite comfortable with that.

Progress is rarely a straight line.  There will be setbacks but generally we’re moving forward.

As for Scottish Independence we came within a few percentage points of winning that vote and numbers are not diminishing.

With regards to the Arab Spring(s), how much has changed in reality.  More liberal, progressive societies?
 

[btb]

Dire times, the mood seems to be an growing number of people voting for keeping the outsiders outside.

Where are the politicians willing to speak for the weak these days, certainly not amongst the Labour party leadership who seem to have been bought off pretty cheaply with shiny baubles.

Looking back to the riots in early August it was the Thursday (?) night when the anti-racist majority took to the streets that ended them.

The electorate is pretty volatile these days, my recollection of the post 2019 GE is that the immediate feeling was Labour couldn't win in 2024 so anything could happen with 5 years of sniping by the MSM unless Labour manage to significantly improve the life prospects of the ordinary voter. My fear is that enough of them will be scared into voting for a Tory party espousing a Reform manifesto.

As I said dire times.

[BFTD]

1 hour ago, Granny Danger said:

Progress is rarely a straight line.  There will be setbacks but generally we’re moving forward.

As for Scottish Independence we came within a few percentage points of winning that vote and numbers are not diminishing.

With regards to the Arab Spring(s), how much has changed in reality.  More liberal, progressive societies?

The Arab nations suffered under authoritarian crackdowns; they didn't just realise they were happy with their societies as they were.

Western governments appear to have been paying attention to how that turned out.

[ClydeTon]

3 hours ago, Fullerene said:

How big a door are we talking about here?

Bigger than one on the Glasgow Subway, at least.

[ClydeTon]

4 hours ago, Brother Blades said:

Did you miss the entire Arab spring a few years back? 

The Arab Spring didn't do all that much in the end.

Yemen, Libya and Syria ended up in civil wars (directly or indirectly), Egypt had to deal with an ISIS insurgency in Sinai (Egypt also shutdown protests in the second Arab Spring) Algeria's politics are dominated by the military, Sudan split into two states, Gaza is under Islamist/paramilitary rule, Iran is still under the tight rule of the Islamic Republic, and Israel is bombing Lebanon, Syria and Gaza.

The only parts of MENA which have got noticeably better are the KSA, Bahrain and Qatar - all petro-states which are liberalising (at varying degrees) in an attempt to liberalise and diversify the economy for when Oil is finished.

We all know that Qatar are far from innocent - the imported workers who were treated appallingly for the World Cup, and their history of being a source/location of funding for terror groups.

The Arab Spring got some political wins, sure, but the Islamic world hasn't got much better in the long term.

[Todd_is_God]

On 05/10/2024 at 11:03, Inanimate Carbon Rod said:

the reason we didnt have riots is largely because we have a much smaller population

The numbers involved in the riots were relatively small.

The reason we didn't have riots is because the country is largely untouched by the type of immigration those rioting claim to be pissed off about.

In Scotland, 95.4% of the population is white, with 87.1% being White British.

In England, those numbers were 81.7% and 74.4% respectively, and white British is projected to become a minority.

There were no riots in Scotland as there is nothing for those who hold those beliefs to riot about. The idea that we are just nicer and more caring is a complete myth.

[welshbairn]

12 minutes ago, Todd_is_God said:

The numbers involved in the riots were relatively small.

The reason we didn't have riots is because the country is largely untouched by the type of immigration those rioting claim to be pissed off about.

In Scotland, 95.4% of the population is white, with 87.1% being White British.

In England, those numbers were 81.7% and 74.4% respectively, and white British is projected to become a minority.

There were no riots in Scotland as there is nothing for those who hold those beliefs to riot about. The idea that we are just nicer and more caring is a complete myth.

Why did they riot in Sunderland? Who's projecting white British to become a minority and when?

[Inanimate Carbon Rod]

26 minutes ago, Todd_is_God said:

The numbers involved in the riots were relatively small.

The reason we didn't have riots is because the country is largely untouched by the type of immigration those rioting claim to be pissed off about.

In Scotland, 95.4% of the population is white, with 87.1% being White British.

In England, those numbers were 81.7% and 74.4% respectively, and white British is projected to become a minority.

There were no riots in Scotland as there is nothing for those who hold those beliefs to riot about. The idea that we are just nicer and more caring is a complete myth.

Ive not once said we have a ‘more caring population’. I dont hold that view. 
But no, we have the same ‘hotels’ housing asylum seekers that are being protested about. We saw this in Erskine in particular, where due to the smaller population they were not able to muster anywhere near the same number of far right protestors. I have a fairly decent insight into how the far right and left organise in this country and it would be nonsense to argue that we are somehow just devoid of those kind of people like those who rioted down south. Its quite simple, even when they publicise events weeks in advance they are unable to get the numbers, if England has a 50million population and can muster 500 people in a far right demo, then its quite accurate that we get the 50 odd folks that we typically see (with more bussed in from England usually if its higher than this). Its all about the proportion of these people in the population and its pretty similar. 

[DeeTillEhDeh]

2 hours ago, Todd_is_God said:

The numbers involved in the riots were relatively small.

The reason we didn't have riots is because the country is largely untouched by the type of immigration those rioting claim to be pissed off about.

In Scotland, 95.4% of the population is white, with 87.1% being White British.

In England, those numbers were 81.7% and 74.4% respectively, and white British is projected to become a minority.

There were no riots in Scotland as there is nothing for those who hold those beliefs to riot about. The idea that we are just nicer and more caring is a complete myth.

Most of the areas with riots have similar or lower level of immigration than Scotland - it's a f**king red herring that gullible c***s keep quoting.

[Todd_is_God]

19 minutes ago, DeeTillEhDeh said:

Most of the areas with riots have similar or lower level of immigration than Scotland - it's a f**king red herring that gullible c***s keep quoting.

Head in the sand stuff.

[Plumpy]

21 minutes ago, DeeTillEhDeh said:

Most of the areas with riots have similar or lower level of immigration than Scotland - it's a f**king red herring that gullible c***s keep quoting.

What's Scotland's numbers compared to here ?

 https://www.middlesbrough.gov.uk/open-data-and-foi/local-statistics-and-data/local-population-diversity/

 

[DeeTillEhDeh]

1 minute ago, Plumpy said:

What's Scotland's numbers compared to here ?

 https://www.middlesbrough.gov.uk/open-data-and-foi/local-statistics-and-data/local-population-diversity/

 

I said most.

But then it's not surprising from the thickest racist on this board.

 

[GHF-23]

Sad to read it's not in fact specific problems related to immigration but in fact just the breach of general demographic percentages which is bad. Surprised? Not really! 

Edited 18 hours ago by GHF-23

[BFTD]

3 minutes ago, GHF-23 said:

Sad to read it's not in fact specific problems related to immigration but in fact just the breach of general demographic percentages which is bad. Surprised? Not really! 

We had a harrowing tale on here a while back about someone travelling in London and realising that they were the only white person on the bus!

The idea was that it was supposed to be a terrifying realisation, like being one of the few humans left at the end of Invasion of the Body Snatchers. Baffling stuff.

[Plumpy]

17 minutes ago, DeeTillEhDeh said:

I said most.

But then it's not surprising from the thickest racist on this board.

 

Really ? I suppose you have proof to back that up ? Absolute headsgone behaviour there 

[Freedom Farter]

On 05/10/2024 at 16:18, Granny Danger said:

With regards to the Arab Spring(s), how much has changed in reality.  More liberal, progressive societies?

Mohamed Bouazizi, in Tunis, self-immolated in despair that he had no way to feed his family. Algerians then self-immolated for similar reasons and so it continued. Liberalism was the cause of their misery not the solution. In their societies, all the forces hostile to labour and supportive of capital had been empowered by liberals, including the religious forces. 

[GordonS]

On 05/10/2024 at 19:26, ClydeTon said:

The Arab Spring got some political wins, sure, but the Islamic world hasn't got much better in the long term.

Way too soon to talk about "the long term". These kinds of societal changes often take several decades, especially the ones that stick. The Arab Spring massively uncreased understanding of and support for democracy, human rights and the rule of law in most of the countries where it happened. Activists have no more power now than before - more in some places, less in others - but they have more supporters, a better understanding of their enemies and when their time comes again they'll be better prepared.

Also important that in some places the impacts definitely lasted. For example, Tunisia has a new constitution and things are different there, even if there's plenty of reason for cynicism. In Morocco, Oman and Jordan there was a shift of power from rulers to legislatures that has become permanent. In the next cycle of protests or uprising they'll be a starting point example for other countries.

For countries like Syria and Libya, at some point their overlords will die out and the question is, will they be replaced like for like? Fighting always stops eventually and that's when there's an opportunity. In Lebanon young people are trying to forge a new Lebanese identity that can encompass Muslims, Christians and Druze. Ironically the attacks by Israel may strengthen that. 

Some people have tried to compare the Arab Sprint to Europe in 1968. A better comparison might turn out to be 1848. The aristocrats and authoritarians won those revolutions too, but beneath them their societies had changed and nothing would go back to how it was.

[GordonS]

14 hours ago, Todd_is_God said:

The numbers involved in the riots were relatively small.

The reason we didn't have riots is because the country is largely untouched by the type of immigration those rioting claim to be pissed off about.

In Scotland, 95.4% of the population is white, with 87.1% being White British.

 

That's false. You've been told this before. From which Facebook account did you get your information?

For those who care, in the 2022 census 7.13% of the population of Scotland identified in a non-white ethnic group, including 1.12% mixed ethnicity. The white population is 92.9%. https://www.scotpho.org.uk/population-groups/ethnic-minorities/data/population-composition/

And I'm sure those rioting love white Poles, Romanians and Gypsy/Travellers, of course.

Of course what really matters is that non-white populations are much more common in the cities, getting on for 20% of the population of Glasgow. That's far, far higher than many of the places in England that saw riots. Your opinion is just dumb.

Edited 6 hours ago by GordonS

[Billy Jean King]

15 hours ago, Plumpy said:

Really ? I suppose you have proof to back that up ? Absolute headsgone behaviour there 

Lolz, Pretty sure your posting history is there for all to see, best to engage what little brain you have before putting finger to keyboard. 

[SandyCromarty]

Given that Scots have tended to be emigrants over the last few hundred years,I'm sure all on here can mention relatives in the USA, Canada, Australia and New Zealand, given that I would say that we are more tolerant of immigration.

There is no doubt that the birth rate has fallen in Scotland and that we need immigration to bolster the workforce and pay taxes etc, the fact that many immigrants have no skills is an argument prresently but people can change and be trained.

Bear in mind that our forefather emigrants arrived in their chosen countries with no skills other than the odd Blacksmith and were mainly farm labourers.