The F1 Thread

[sophia]

7 hours ago, jimmy boo said:

Dundee Inverness game is on

^^^ fixed

Yes folks, that's how dull this gets.

 

[Mr. Brightside]

Another broken trophy today 

[scottsdad]

19 hours ago, peasy23 said:

Has to be the most boring season ever, it's been an absolute procession to the driver's championship for Max.

Not really. It's on a par with 2002 and 2004. We occasionally see seasons like this one that are just murder. 

[scottsdad]

17 hours ago, Boo Khaki said:

Getting rid of DRS completely would be a first step. It does nothing on piss tracks like Monaco and Hungary, and all it does on places where it is actually possible to pass is turn standard overtakes into 'breeze past you half way down the straight' laughers, and create hilarious DRS trains of equally paced cars where everyone just sits behind each other, because getting too close ruins your tyres, and trying an overtake that fails will punt you out of the DRS range, so it's much easier to just sit there .750 behind going round and round poaching the tow off of each other. Close up at the end of the straight, back off in the acceleration zone, rinse and repeat.

The stated aim was to get regulation stability, close the field up, and then bin the tinpot DRS system. There's practically f**k all between the field in relative terms in Quali trim, and we're a season and a half into the same regs, so it should have been dumped well before now.

You're right.

It was brought in because we had years of cars following but unable to pass because the dirty air from the car in front destabilised the aerodynamics. The new rules should eliminate this. 

 

[vikingTON]

DRS has made a substantial difference at a track like Budapest. This season might have been a snoozefest, but the past few events have had more on-track overtakes per race than Hungary used to produce per decade. Monaco is not a DRS issue as much as the cars being too wide for the circuit. Overall the system does need to be either adjusted to make it less of an automatic overtake button, or possibly removed altogether if the aerodynamics allow. 

I've been banging on about this forever but bringing back refuelling would allow cars to be raced at a more competitive pace (which means drivers making more errors) and is also more efficient than the current regulations. The total fuel use can be kept the same and the fuel tank relatively small to require pit stops. 

Another reform to improve the product is to bring back tyre competition. Apparently Pirelli and another supplier (Bridgestone?) are competing to be the sole type supplier going forward - let both supply tyres instead. 

There will always be faster and sometimes dominant cars, but bringing back fuel strategy and tyre competition adds more elements - and combinations - of variation to the race. That's how you reduce the frequency of snorefests (although there was actually a lot of action outside the front runners again yesterday - it's just not as engaging when the championship is a ludicrously foregone conclusion). 

[scottsdad]

2 hours ago, virginton said:

DRS has made a substantial difference at a track like Budapest. This season might have been a snoozefest, but the past few events have had more on-track overtakes per race than Hungary used to produce per decade. Monaco is not a DRS issue as much as the cars being too wide for the circuit. Overall the system does need to be either adjusted to make it less of an automatic overtake button, or possibly removed altogether if the aerodynamics allow. 

I've been banging on about this forever but bringing back refuelling would allow cars to be raced at a more competitive pace (which means drivers making more errors) and is also more efficient than the current regulations. The total fuel use can be kept the same and the fuel tank relatively small to require pit stops. 

Another reform to improve the product is to bring back tyre competition. Apparently Pirelli and another supplier (Bridgestone?) are competing to be the sole type supplier going forward - let both supply tyres instead. 

There will always be faster and sometimes dominant cars, but bringing back fuel strategy and tyre competition adds more elements - and combinations - of variation to the race. That's how you reduce the frequency of snorefests (although there was actually a lot of action outside the front runners again yesterday - it's just not as engaging when the championship is a ludicrously foregone conclusion). 

I'd agree with a lot of this, though a DRS-assisted overtake doesn't have the same status (at least to me) as a non-DRS one. 

I don't think they'll bring back refuelling on safety grounds. Thinking Massa in Singapore 2008 as an example - they'll never let it back. It would, though, add another element to the strategy. Heavy fuel and a 1-stop versus light fuelling and a 2-stop used to a very interesting aspect of the race, seeing all the strategies play out. 

Two tyre suppliers can go both ways. I remember the Bridgestone/Michelin battles of the 2000s. There were times when the Michelin tyres were costing the cars half a second a lap. But it could help the sport - imagine a fast tyre with poor durability versus a slow tyre that lasts ages. Adds more elements to the competition. 

[The Golden God]

I would love to bring back the tyre wars. It all ended cause of USA 2005 but that just a disaster from all involved, make the suppliers competent and it’ll be fine. 

[Raidernation]

Having thought about this and spoken to some racers and car building guys I know; we came up with a solution.

You can keep everything else the same, but limit the car overall width, including tyres to about 60% of where we are now. Definitely allows for more overtaking and the good old days of 3 cars side by side on corners.

[Boo Khaki]

The problem with narrower track cars is they have reduced mechanical grip, so you get straight back into the nonsense of the 98-2009 ruleset that meant you fart on them and they go careering off the track, and you can't get within 100 yards of the car in front because they are 100%  reliant on aero downforce to remain in any way driveable.

Wide cars aren't the problem its made out to be. Other formula have similar sized cars or larger and yet close racing and overtaking are not problems because they don't have the wake that comes off the back of an F1 car. That is the real issue with F1

Refuelling is a dead-end. It turns every race into a series of flat-out sprints, and because tyre wear isn't an issue if you are stopping 2-3 times every race, the fastest car will win 99% of the time regardless. 

The 'issue' with F1 is two things - 1. diffuser/wing shenanigans that creates an enormous amount of turbulence by design, and 2. the fact that people just don't like it when a team does a good job, comes up with something innovative, and blows the rest of the field away. Considering that is kinda the whole point of an open series, I'm not sure exactly what they are supposed to do. Silhouette and single-make series are tedious, and there is already far too much commonality of parts in F1 as it is.

I don't find this season boring at all, at least, not in terms of RB running away with everything. F1 has done everything it can to regulate out most of the excitement from the actual racing anyway, so I don't see RB having done a much better job of designing and building a car as a problem to be fixed. It's crap smoke and mirrors novelties like DRS that have devalued F1. The ban on altering car setup between sessions is a risible nonsense. The lack of in-season testing combined with no impetus on tyre development means it's stale from March to November, and the fact they are utterly incapable of racing in any sort of wet conditions renders the series a laughing stock. Oh, and the 3/5 engine rule leading to almost 100% perfect in-race reliability is, by far, the one thing that has done the most to promote 'boring' racing.

Drivers and teams running away with championships is neither here nor there because that has always happened in F1 regardless of ruleset, and here we are only 1.5 seasons into a new 'revolutionary' revision, and already folk are upset. 

Edited July 31, 2023 by Boo Khaki

[V.Aye.R]

2 hours ago, Boo Khaki said:

 the fact they are utterly incapable of racing in any sort of wet conditions renders the series a laughing stock. Oh, and the 3/5 engine rule leading to almost 100% perfect in-race reliability is, by far, the one thing that has done the most to promote 'boring' racing.

The Wet racing fear has grown arms and legs in recent years. Obviously for safety but its gone too far imo. 

I can't recall too many engines blowing in recent years. Engineers probably have better data and call it before an engine eats itself. Always used to enjoy a cloud of smoke and the oil slick that followed. 

[JamesP_81]

1 hour ago, V.Aye.R said:

The Wet racing fear has grown arms and legs in recent years. Obviously for safety but its gone too far imo. 

I can't recall too many engines blowing in recent years. Engineers probably have better data and call it before an engine eats itself. Always used to enjoy a cloud of smoke and the oil slick that followed. 

Not just wet racing fear , there's a general fear of almost any kind of competitive aggression. Cars race too close , penalty . Cars go off track , penalty. Car defends an overtake , penalty.

Back in the day even when there was dominance from certain drivers there was always a decent chance that their car would let go before the end of the race , now the almost bullet proof reliability takes any uncertainty away from the races . 

[CityDave94]

Rumour that HiTech GP application to enter F1 from 2024 could be scuppered due to...... if found to be true that Dmitry Mazepin is secretly funding the team through extremely wealthy Kazakh business magnete Vladimir Kim who recently bought 25% into the team. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vladimir_Kim

Looks like Mazepin Sr is looking for a way to buy his son back into F1 one way or another.

[V.Aye.R]

6 hours ago, approximately dave said:

Rumour that HiTech GP application to enter F1 from 2024 could be scuppered due to...... if found to be true that Dmitry Mazepin is secretly funding the team through extremely wealthy Kazakh business magnete Vladimir Kim who recently bought 25% into the team. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vladimir_Kim

Looks like Mazepin Sr is looking for a way to buy his son back into F1 one way or another.

I'd fully support Mazepin in F1. 

Mainly because it would be hilarious. 

[parsforlife]

14 minutes ago, V.Aye.R said:

I'd fully support Mazepin in F1. 

Mainly because it would be hilarious. 

There’s been a lot of talk about technical regs, team decisions, tracks etc because races aren’t interesting enough but the biggest issue in the last fews years has been the lack of mazepin.  If the restrictions still won’t let him race they should just create car 21 with the drivers seat raffled off each race week. 

[CityDave94]

I see another name is being mentioned as a potential team mate to Max Verstappen, that is Nico Hulkenberg. I'm not convinced here although he has been supurb in qualifying and during the race he's been solid regardless that the car itself isn't that good. He has been out performing Magnussen and looks worthy of driving for a better team, but Red Bull? Can't see that making sense. Would like to see him at Aston Martin or Audi next season. I think if Audi are looking for a German driver it would come down to either Hulkenberg or Schumacher, Hulkenberg would easily be the first choice.

[The Golden God]

I would love to bring back the tyre wars. It all ended cause of USA 2005 but that just a disaster from all involved, make the suppliers competent and it’ll be fine. 

[The Golden God]

 

The amount of people saying yellow here is extremely concerning. 

[Mark Connolly]

1 hour ago, The Golden God said:

 

The amount of people saying yellow here is extremely concerning. 

TBF yellow would be preferable to green

[CityDave94]

19 hours ago, parsforlife said:

There’s been a lot of talk about technical regs, team decisions, tracks etc because races aren’t interesting enough but the biggest issue in the last fews years has been the lack of mazepin.  If the restrictions still won’t let him race they should just create car 21 with the drivers seat raffled off each race week. 

Well, good news because he can race again in F1 - https://www.planetf1.com/news/eu-court-ruling-nikita-mazepin-f1-return/

The issue here though for him now he has get back into F1 without the help of his father and convince a team he's good enough for them to sign him. I think he will stick to sports cars endurance and the odd rally raid. Maybe try DTM or Formula E in future. But not F1.

[CityDave94]

Rumour that AlphaTauri are about to be renamed Boss Orange or, as it appears that the team have made a deal with Hugo Boss for the clothing brand to become the main sponsor starting next season.

Be interesting to see the new livery on the new car next season.