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2019/20 Scottish Cup


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1 hour ago, Ranaldo Bairn said:

They'll all get automatic entry to Round 1, so they'll have to rejig it somehow. Either by footering with the Preliminary Rounds, or maybe making all Championship clubs enter at R3, instead of R4 as currently.

A license doesn't get you automatic entry to Round 1 - a license only gets you entry into the tournament. As it stands, all of the clubs granted a license today will enter at the 1st Preliminary Round, but will be eligible for a bye to the 2nd Preliminary Round.

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Fair enough. They'll still have to rejig the number of matches though.

...and judging by the utterly contemptuous statements issued by Haddington and Bonnyrigg at today's licencing announcements, I wouldn't put it past them to have 9 clubs in the semi final draw.

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Licensed clubs outwith HL & LL no longer get an exemption from the preliminaries. Couple of seasons ago it passed the point where there were more licensed clubs than spaces left in R1 - but SFA rules revision panel failed to put any amendment before AGM to address this. SFA Board then put through an 'emergency' measure which required licensed clubs outwith HL & LL to also enter the preliminaries, though any byes in PR1 would be reserved for licensed clubs (but randomly: not according to league positions!). An attempt to overturn this was narrowly defeated at the following year's AGM. It's an altogether odd situation, since when the cup got reformatted in 2007-08 there weren't quite enough clubs to fill every round: as a result there are effectively 4 unnecessary byes in R1 and again in R3.


Having crunched the numbers just now... if no bye alterations are made - plus no clubs denied their licences are successful in challenging that - there will be 13 or 14 EOSL clubs depending on whether or not Cove go up (11 or 12 members + Bonnyrigg + Camelon); 4 SOSL clubsGolspie; 4 Junior clubs if assuming Auchinleck do the double (BoD + Girvan + 2 qualifiers); Glasgow Uni; and Amateur Cup winner.

So if Cove don't go up that would mean 24 clubs and you've straightforward 12 ties in PR1 and 6 ties in PR2. Alternatively if Cove go up that would mean 25 clubs... on paper that should mean 2 unlucky sides having to contest PR0 to get into PR1 :o but if you think about it either (1) BoD join HL in which case you're back down to 24; or (2) no-one join HL and they run with 17 clubs leaving an extra space in R1, and consequently you've 11 ties & 3 byes in PR1 and 7 ties in PR2.

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OK if I have this right, these are the clubs below tier 5 level who will enter (assuming any licence appeals are unsuccessful, and that Talbot win both league and cup).

If there are to be byes in PR1, only Licenced clubs are eligible?

Licenced

1.Banks O’Dee (+ North Junior Champs)

2.Burntisland Shipyard

3.Coldstream

4.Girvan

5.Glasgow University

6.Golspie Sutherland

7.Hawick Royal Albert

8.Linlithgow Rose

9.Lothian Thistle Hutchison Vale

10.Newton Stewart

11.Preston Athletic

12.St Cuthbert Wanderers

13.Threave Rovers

14.Wigtown & Bladnoch

15.Blackburn United

16.Broxburn Athletic

17.Easthouses Lily

18.Hill of Beath Hawthorn

19.Penicuik Athletic

20.Tynecastle

 

Unlicenced

1. Bonnyrigg Rose (EoS Champion)

2. Camelon (Shield Winner)

3. Lochee United (East Junior)

4. Auchinleck Talbot (West Junior + Junior Cup)

5. Colville Park (Amateur Cup Winners)

Edited by Burnie_man
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Let's not forget that clubs that get licensed in June also get in the cup. I'm not sure if there are any more applications for the Licensing committee to look at by then?

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If the rules were changed so all 10 Championship clubs entered at R3 and the HL and LL  top 2 entered in R1 instead of R2 it would look like this:

60 entrants at Round 1
30 winners and 10 new entries (L2) at Round 2
20 winners and 20 new entries (L1, Championship) at Round 3
20 winners and 12 new entries (Premiership) at Round 4

We're getting to the point where this almost works. Not quite enough teams entering this year but it will work for 2020-21 Cup. 

This year we are guaranteed 55 entries at Round 1:
17-18 HL (17 if Cove Promoted)
16 LL
19-20 Licensed (19 if Berwick stay up)
Amateur Cup Winners
South and East Shield Winners

There are also a potential 2-6 extra qualifiers (four junior league / cup winners and two EOS/SOS league winners. However these can be filled by licensed clubs / ineligible clubs / duplicates so there may not always be 6 extra teams. This year there may only be 3 if Talbot win West Premiership and the Junior Cup, combined with licensed Banks of Dee winning the north and ineligible Stranraer Reserves winning the SOS. 

So we need an extra 3 licensed clubs to guarantee that there would always be at least 60 entrants for a full slate of Round 1 ties. If, as seems likely, we have several more licensed clubs before the end of the year then this definitely seems the best way to arrange the 2020-21 Scottish Cup. This being the SFA we'll probably get three preliminary rounds instead!

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Given Rounds 1, 2 and 3 will at last be televised and one live game broadcast in each of these rounds, I wonder whether they will look to abolish Preliminary rounds in order to provide a better chance of a bigger non-league game to televise in R1?

eg Talbot after this seasons exploits would be a good game to cover, same with the likes of Linlithgow, but they could be papped out before R1.

Edited by Burnie_man
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Given Rounds 1, 2 and 3 will at last be televised and one live game broadcast in each of these rounds, I wonder whether they will look to abolish Preliminary rounds in order to provide a better chance of a bigger non-league game to televise in R1?

eg Talbot after this seasons exploits would be a good game to cover, same with the likes of Linlithgow, but they could be papped out before R1.

 

Getting rid of the preliminaries would be for the better, probably best to do so by getting all championship teams in round 3.

 

However they could also do something similar to the youth cup and give byes to teams the reached a particular round last year instead of it being random. That would increase the chances of TV being able to show an early round involving someone who had a good run the previous year.

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Getting rid of the preliminaries would be for the better, probably best to do so by getting all championship teams in round 3.
 
However they could also do something similar to the youth cup and give byes to teams the reached a particular round last year instead of it being random. That would increase the chances of TV being able to show an early round involving someone who had a good run the previous year.
So would all Championship teams entering at Round 3 ensure that, for now, preliminary rounds are not required?
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On 11/05/2019 at 10:32, Burnie_man said:

So would all Championship teams entering at Round 3 ensure that, for now, preliminary rounds are not required?

I worked this out just over a year ago - after accounting for all the Highland League and Lowland League clubs you would have had 22 available places in Round 1 (as of last season), compared to the current 6. Assuming Cove go up this year and the Highland League ends up with 17 next season, that would increase to 23 places.

Last year only 19 clubs competed in the Preliminary Round, but this year it could be 24/25/26. That would mean only a handful of preliminary ties required (1-3).

 

On 29/03/2018 at 13:17, craigkillie said:

 

What they should do is take away the spots for the top 4 Championship clubs in Round 4, and have a consistent policy of SPFL teams from the same league entering at the same time.  It doesn't make any sense, because the Championship sides with byes are typically without a game anyway.  You could also explore the current situation where the top 2 teams in the Highland League and Lowland League get byes to the 2nd Round - you could reduce that to just the champions, or even get rid of it, though that's probably not necessary right now.

That would free up quite a few spots for the earlier rounds.  Right now there are 16 teams automatically qualified for the 4th Round, which means only 32 teams can compete in the 3rd Round.  If that dropped to 12 teams, then you'd have 20 places up for grabs, and 40 teams competing in the 3rd Round (4 extra spaces plus the 4 Championship teams who have been bumped down).  If my calculations are correct, then that would lead to a scenario where there could be as many as 52 teams instead of 36 in the 1st Round.

R1 - 52 teams (16 Highland League, 14 Lowland League + 22 from Preliminary Round{s})
R2 - 40 teams (10 League Two, 2 Highland League, 2 Lowland League + 26 winners)
R3 - 40 teams (10 Championship, 10 League 1 + 20 winners)
R4 - 32 teams (12 Premiership + 20 winners)

Last season, there were only 15 teams in the Preliminary Rounds, but they were only playing for 6 spaces in the tournament proper.  This small tweak would mean that another 7 members could join without even needing to hold a Preliminary Round.   There would only need to be a negligible change in prize money to make this happen.

 

Edited by craigkillie
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Withdrawing just 2x Championship byes and 2x HL / LL byes (i.e. both runners-up) would free-up an extra 10 spaces in R1, for a total of 17, allowing 10 to enter directly and 14 to play a single Preliminary.
Withdrawing 2 Championship byes would be weird though - you'd still have 2 Championship clubs sitting idle on R3 weekend.
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