Connor1874 Posted August 27, 2019 Share Posted August 27, 2019 5 minutes ago, virginton said: Birthday caird pish. What exactly were the thousands of Bolton fans doing while their club was overspending to the tune of over £200 million to play at a level that they couldn't possibly sustain year after year? Bury literally financially doped their way out of the fourth tier just last season while the lights were being cut off around them - I don't recall too many howls of complaint from their fans about that ridiculous misplacing of priorities. These are largely Dundee and Gretna-esque farces largely of their own making; the warning here is to other fanbases to try and secure a degree of influence over the running their club instead of lapping up all the pledges made to them by whatever Walter Mitty figure comes through the door. And what do you expect the fans do in these situations? 'Our Bolton are in the Premier League, it's disgusting, let's boycott it'. Most fans are totally oblivous to what's even going on behind the scenes at their own clubs. Speaking from experience, I bought into the Romanov hype at Hearts like thousands of others did. When we almost went bust, it was purely at the fault of Romanov and his mercernaries. Point I'm making is, you've every right to not have sympathy for these clubs when you think about who they've hurt in their trail of financial destruction, but it's the people who run the club who are to blame, not the fans at all. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rab B Nesbit Posted August 27, 2019 Share Posted August 27, 2019 20 minutes ago, 7-2 said: Apparently Sky Sports News has a countdown clock to 5pm. When you think they couldn't sink any lower that continuing to employ Carracher. *Carragher -5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vikingTON Posted August 27, 2019 Share Posted August 27, 2019 2 minutes ago, Connor1874 said: And what do you expect the fans do in these situations? 'Our Bolton are in the Premier League, it's disgusting, let's boycott it'. Most fans are totally oblivous to what's even going on behind the scenes at their own clubs. They fucking shouldn't have been; Bolton's massive annual losses were a matter of public record at the time. The onus was on Bolton fans to organise themselves into a body at that time to build enough resources to support the club when the shit inevitably hit the fan. Instead they just lapped up some massively paid internationals waltz around the pitch under 'big Sam' and are now giving it the crocodile tears when it all inevitably went wrong for them. So Dundee x2 then. Quote Point I'm making is, you've every right to not have sympathy for these clubs when you think about who they've hurt in their trail of financial destruction, but it's the people who run the club who are to blame, not the fans at all. Pish, fans are also often responsible for their misrunning of their club in addition to the owners: nobody asset-stripped Bolton for example, they dug the hole entirely by themselves through cheating. So long as people try to wave away all responsibility from fans then the game will continue to lose clubs at the same rate. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jacksgranda Posted August 27, 2019 Share Posted August 27, 2019 Carracher/Carragher, shit/shite, same difference. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rab B Nesbit Posted August 27, 2019 Share Posted August 27, 2019 2 minutes ago, Jacksgranda said: Carracher/Carragher, shit/shite, same difference. ^^^ Loyal Sky Sports customer. Up the Ev. -3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Connor1874 Posted August 27, 2019 Share Posted August 27, 2019 3 minutes ago, virginton said: They fucking shouldn't have been; Bolton's massive annual losses were a matter of public record at the time. The onus was on Bolton fans to organise themselves into a body at that time to build enough resources to support the club when the shit inevitably hit the fan. Instead they just lapped up some massively paid internationals waltz around the pitch under 'big Sam' and are now giving it the crocodile tears when it all inevitably went wrong for them. So Dundee x2 then. Pish, fans are also often responsible for their misrunning of their club in addition to the owners: nobody asset-stripped Bolton for example, they dug the hole entirely by themselves through cheating. So long as people try to wave away all responsibility from fans then the game will continue to lose clubs at the same rate. Fans of every club in this situation have been guilty of the same. Sadly, we don't realise our own failings until we are in that position ourselves. You telling me if some big millionaire bought Morton tomorrow and pumped youse full of cash, you'd be immediately scared about the future? Would you nowt. You'd be enjoying the ride like every other poor bugger. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rab B Nesbit Posted August 27, 2019 Share Posted August 27, 2019 16 years later that’s payback for the last minute Djorkaeff winner in the League Cup at Anfield. Cheats. -8 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miguel Sanchez Posted August 27, 2019 Share Posted August 27, 2019 8 hours ago, Florentine_Pogen said: https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2019/aug/26/bury-britain-gigg-lane-brexit?CMP=Share_iOSApp_Other Quote Day’s property ventures were not even supported by banks; he had borrowed heavily from Lendy, a model based on attracting money from thousands of individual investors, which has itself collapsed and is now subject to a Financial Conduct Authority investigation. Day also pre-sold individual flats, promising guaranteed returns from students’ rent payments, and many investors are now distraught at seeing life savings lost. I sense a problem here. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jacksgranda Posted August 27, 2019 Share Posted August 27, 2019 10 minutes ago, Rab B Nesbit said: 16 years later that’s payback for the last minute Djorkaeff winner in the League Cup at Anfield. Cheats. And Liverpool fans wonder why everyone laughs at them... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
harry94 Posted August 27, 2019 Share Posted August 27, 2019 1 minute ago, virginton said: They fucking shouldn't have been; Bolton's massive annual losses were a matter of public record at the time. The onus was on Bolton fans to organise themselves into a body at that time to build enough resources to support the club when the shit inevitably hit the fan. Instead they just lapped up some massively paid internationals waltz around the pitch under 'big Sam' and are now giving it the crocodile tears when it all inevitably went wrong for them. Football fans by large are always winging about their board being stingy - take Celtic for example, fan base are having riots because they aren't spending when they are winning every thing in sight domestically and have a very successful operation with the irony being that there is a really striking example with Rangers having neglected a good corporate structure and seeing disaster. St Johnstone fans on here, not picking them out for any reason than it's an example that comes to mind, are always complaining about their tight chairman. Both Dundee fans calling their respective owners tight in the last few years despite consistently plugging huge amounts of money in. The truth is that whilst a few of us might have an understanding of the mechanisms of what is going on and go through the annual accounts etc in a bit more detail, that represents an absolute tiny proportion of any fan base. The average customer just wants to turn up and have someone who tells them they will have good times coming, that's about it. When it gets to a club in the English Premier League, it's even much harder to process - Bolton's situation for example wasn't as black and white as you were presenting it, there were considerable amounts of assets tied in and complex financial mechanisms in place. For many years, their ownership were rewarded with FA roles and regarded as good administrators and the discontenting fans who worried were mocked in the press. A couple of players leaving is enough to delude most that there's some balance in spending. In any case, it's really hard for fans to organise against this sort of stuff, really hard. The Dundee case is specifically a very good example. Admin 1 comes about and a supporters society come in with the cash injections needed for operation costs post admin. The problem is then that the society are running with no overdraft facility and just no real expertise on how to run a club. Eventually, some maniac comes in and let's us delude ourselves for a few months whilst he launders some cash but the problem is that when this character entered; and the Marr's for that matter; they in themselves are saviours as the club is already in a dire situation and just needing cash from anywhere. Then admin 2 happens and the supporters are thrusted into actually being the primary owners and those problems they had before are intensified. To their credit, they parted with the club with a very good arrangement in terms of legally binding the new owners against running up any debt and some other things but they don't have the money to actually provide a presence to really do anything or be ready for a future crisis - I wouldn't like to know what legal costs would be needed if the owners tried to articulate a flimsy legal argument to disregard their obligations (they've shown no sign of this to date) and run up debt in the clubs name, I fear that even the best society a club our size could realistically have would be out of their depth. Believe me, throughout the whole of Dundee's operation, even with the current ownership, there has always been debate but it comes down to 'What is your idea? What's better than this arrangement and quickly ended. To make meaningful change, it's a lot of cash and know how needed, it's not simply good enough to moan that things don't look good without an action plan. When you see examples of teams who have had the fans take collective action and succeed, in some measure, when the running of the club has looked poor, it's usually because there has been one or two benefactor who has had the club close to their heart and been willing to donate serious amounts of cash to the society themselves and have been competent enough to put an operation in place. If supporters are to ever play a serious role in this sort of thing, they need help to do it. There will be plenty of casual Bury fans who were happy enough when the press reported that their new owner had passed EFL fit persons regulations and not appreciating how insignificant that is! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vikingTON Posted August 27, 2019 Share Posted August 27, 2019 (edited) 20 minutes ago, Connor1874 said: Fans of every club in this situation have been guilty of the same. Sadly, we don't realise our own failings until we are in that position ourselves. Not every fanbase in football throws itself at the mercy of some charlatan Walter Mitty figure, no. Quote You telling me if some big millionaire bought Morton tomorrow and pumped youse full of cash, you'd be immediately scared about the future? Would you nowt. You'd be enjoying the ride like every other poor bugger. Morton have already been pumped with cash by a millionaire owner - fat lot of good that did us in the grand schemes of things, jumping up two divisions to where we belonged while squandering £100k a pop on donkeys like Chris Templeman - and only now are the fans starting the process of raising money in return for a stake in the future of the club. Largely because our previous supporters' group proved literally incapable of running a piss-up without financial scandal and allegations of criminality. This current effort could well prove too late if the shit hits the fan tomorrow, in which case our fanbase would absolutely bear some culpability. I'm not saying that fans should never let a new owner invest in their club. It is however their task to scrutinise all claims to weed out Walter Mittys and organise themselves so that they are in a position of power to either apply the brakes when financial excess takes place or bail the club out themselves if administration happens. If you're simply not interested in doing that then you have absolutely no right to give it the blubbering doe eyes to the national media when it all goes down the swanny. Edited August 27, 2019 by vikingTON 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rab B Nesbit Posted August 27, 2019 Share Posted August 27, 2019 6 minutes ago, Jacksgranda said: And Liverpool fans wonder why everyone laughs at them... ... what would you know about Liverpool fans. Enjoyed many a trip to Bolton and was at Bury for the pre-season friendly last year. It’s looking grim but hopefully a miracle can be found. -1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Connor1874 Posted August 27, 2019 Share Posted August 27, 2019 8 minutes ago, virginton said: Not every fanbase in football throws itself at the mercy of some charlatan Walter Mitty figure, no. Morton have already been pumped with cash by a millionaire owner - fat lot of good that did us in the grand schemes of things, jumping up two divisions to where we belonged while squandering £100k a pop on donkeys like Chris Templeman - and only now are the fans starting the process of raising money in return for a stake in the future of the club. Largely because our previous supporters' group proved literally incapable of running a piss-up without financial scandal and allegations of criminality. This current effort could well prove too late if the shit hits the fan tomorrow, in which case our fanbase would absolutely bear some culpability. I'm not saying that fans should never let a new owner invest in their club. It is however their task to scrutinise all claims to weed out Walter Mittys and organise themselves so that they are in a position of power to either apply the brakes when financial excess takes place or bail the club out themselves if administration happens. If you're simply not interested in doing that then you have absolutely no right to give it the blubbering doe eyes to the national media when it all goes down the swanny. But the reality is, not all of these figures are Walter Mitty's. Or at least not yet proven to be. Look at Man City. The first English club really to be pumped full of cash. A decade on and they've reaped the benefits on the park, while off it they've been totally transformed. It's easy in hindsight to say fans should do more, and in the case of clubs who've had their fingers burnt, their fans should know better. But when that carrot is dangled in front of you, and those dark days of yo-yoing the leagues seem like a thing of the past, it's easy to get sucked in to someone's promises. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vikingTON Posted August 27, 2019 Share Posted August 27, 2019 Man City were not even remotely 'the first English club really to be pumped full of cash'. Quote But when that carrot is dangled in front of you, and those dark days of yo-yoing the leagues seem like a thing of the past, it's easy to get sucked in to someone's promises. That doesn't mean that you can abdicate all responsibility for what happens next though. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ForzaDundee Posted August 27, 2019 Share Posted August 27, 2019 Why are people all over twitter blaming the EFL? If a club can't complete fixtures then it's only fair that they are booted out and one of the many non-league clubs gets it's place in the football league. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rab B Nesbit Posted August 27, 2019 Share Posted August 27, 2019 Good old Sky do it again ... -1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ajwffc Posted August 27, 2019 Share Posted August 27, 2019 10 minutes ago, ForzaDundee said: Why are people all over twitter blaming the EFL? If a club can't complete fixtures then it's only fair that they are booted out and one of the many non-league clubs gets it's place in the football league. most seam to think that the EFL, FA, Premier League and other teams and players should give them money to keep them going. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ForzaDundee Posted August 27, 2019 Share Posted August 27, 2019 1 minute ago, ajwffc said: most seam to think that the EFL, FA, Premier League and other teams and players should give them money to keep them going. All the overpaid players should give some money back to the game. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barry Ferguson's Hat Posted August 27, 2019 Share Posted August 27, 2019 Nurses should have to pay for it. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
invergowrie arab Posted August 27, 2019 Share Posted August 27, 2019 My favourite tweet was that the Bolton Bury game should be played at Old Trafford and the resultant sell out used to pay money to the players. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.