Billy Gilmour

[Monkey Tennis]

I have no problem with our team virtually all being drawn from clubs outside Scotland.

Our strong 1970s sides were composed mainly of English based players.

[Molotov]

2 minutes ago, Jambomo said:

I think we do have a lot of talent coming through, it’s just they don’t develop in Scotland. They are going to England or abroad and progressing better there. 

I do agree that the focus on Celtic and Rangers, especially in the champions league has long contributed to ruining our league,  but the football here isn’t really good enough to develop players from kids into outstanding players. I don’t think it’s got much to do with foreign players, it has more to do with lack of money, a lack of competition overall and too much variance of the standard of teams in the league.

I honestly think it’s a good thing our kids are moving to Italy, England etc they get better training and more competitive environment.

Our “wonder talent” of the last decade includes Ryan Gauld, Oliver Burke, Nathan Paterson and Billy Gilmour. 

Despite all in leagues and training environments far superior to our leagues they just appear to have stalled or gone backwards.

It’s so sad to see. I grew up watching arguably world class Scottish players playing across Europe in the 60s/70s/80s. 

Perhaps we will see a golden generation coming through but I think the traditional natural skills learned in the street in Scotland are just coached out of young players. Plus you rarely see kids out playing in the street or parks these days. 

 

[Jambomo]

10 minutes ago, Molotov said:

Our “wonder talent” of the last decade includes Ryan Gauld, Oliver Burke, Nathan Paterson and Billy Gilmour. 

Despite all in leagues and training environments far superior to our leagues they just appear to have stalled or gone backwards.

It’s so sad to see. I grew up watching arguably world class Scottish players playing across Europe in the 60s/70s/80s. 

Perhaps we will see a golden generation coming through but I think the traditional natural skills learned in the street in Scotland are just coached out of young players. Plus you rarely see kids out playing in the street or parks these days. 

 

It also includes the likes of Robertson, Tierney, McGinn, Hickey looks very promising and I think Patterson and Gilmour are far from done as footballers. Not all players will come through and be brilliant but Robertson alone is playing, and won, at the highest level you can in club football.

I don’t think that it’s nearly as gloomy as you are making out.

[Monkey Tennis]

18 minutes ago, Molotov said:

 

It’s so sad to see. I grew up watching arguably world class Scottish players playing across Europe in the 60s/70s/80s. 

Perhaps we will see a golden generation coming through but I think the traditional natural skills learned in the street in Scotland are just coached out of young players. Plus you rarely see kids out playing in the street or parks these days. 

 

House!

[Molotov]

4 minutes ago, Jambomo said:

It also includes the likes of Robertson, Tierney, McGinn, Hickey looks very promising and I think Patterson and Gilmour are far from done as footballers. Not all players will come through and be brilliant but Robertson alone is playing, and won, at the highest level you can in club football.

I don’t think that it’s nearly as gloomy as you are making out.

Robertson has been the one that had really stood out in the EPL and Europe - consistently.

None of the others have won anything of note down south in comparison to the players I watched in my childhood and youth. That was the point I was making.

We all had very high hopes for Gauld, Burke, Paterson and Gilmour.

Teirney and McGinn had both won major honours at young ages before going south so I never included them.

Perhaps it’s an age difference and you never experienced the players of my generation who were actually World Class. 

 

[No_Problemo]

Just now, Molotov said:

Robertson has been the one that had really stood out in the EPL and Europe - consistently.

None of the others have won anything of note down south in comparison to the players I watched in my childhood and youth. That was the point I was making.

We all had very high hopes for Gauld, Burke, Paterson and Gilmour.

Teirney and McGinn had both won major honours at young ages before going south so I never included them.

Perhaps it’s an age difference and you never experienced the players of my generation who were actually World Class. 

 

Why does it sound like you are writing off two players who are 21, yes 21 years old. 

[Molotov]

Just now, No_Problemo said:

Why does it sound like you are writing off two players who are 21, yes 21 years old. 

I’m not writing them off.

I would just like to see them playing regularly for their club sides and therefore be match ready for international duty.

 

[craigkillie]

3 minutes ago, Molotov said:

None of the others have won anything of note down south in comparison to the players I watched in my childhood and youth. That was the point I was making.

 

There were hardly any foreign players in English football at that point, so inevitably more of our players were able to play at the top level. Imagine picking out the top 250ish players from UK and Ireland now and filling out the squads of the top English clubs with those. Suddenly the likes of McGinn, Hickey etc would be playing for the elite clubs the way the Scottish players were back in the day.

[Monkey Tennis]

5 minutes ago, Molotov said:

 

None of the others have won anything of note down south in comparison to the players I watched in my childhood and youth. That was the point I was making.

Very few of the players I'm guessing you're referring to, would make it into top English sides today.  The English clubs who kept winning the European Cup when I was a kid, drew virtually all of  their players from the British Isles.  Nowadays, such clubs are World Selects.

[Jambomo]

7 minutes ago, Molotov said:

Robertson has been the one that had really stood out in the EPL and Europe - consistently.

None of the others have won anything of note down south in comparison to the players I watched in my childhood and youth. That was the point I was making.

We all had very high hopes for Gauld, Burke, Paterson and Gilmour.

Teirney and McGinn had both won major honours at young ages before going south so I never included them.

Perhaps it’s an age difference and you never experienced the players of my generation who were actually World Class. 

 

I don’t get why you wouldn’t include Tierney and McGinn as successful players because they were successful with their clubs here. They are still successful players playing at a very high level. 
 

Patterson was playing regularly for Everton before his injury. It’s pretty early to write both he or Gilmour off. 

[Molotov]

1 minute ago, Monkey Tennis said:

Very few of the players I'm guessing you're referring to, would make it into top English sides today.  The English clubs who kept winning the European Cup when I was a kid, drew virtually all of  their players from the British Isles.  Nowadays, such clubs are World Selects.

Are you honestly suggesting that guys like Dalglish, Souness, Hansen, Gemmill, Bremner, etc would not make it into an EPL team? 

[Molotov]

Just now, Jambomo said:

I don’t get why you wouldn’t include Tierney and McGinn as successful players because they were successful with their clubs here. They are still successful players playing at a very high level. 
 

Patterson was playing regularly for Everton before his injury. It’s pretty early to write both he or Gilmour off. 

How many EPL games has KT actually started this season?

I think you are just looking for any excuse for an argument and overlooking the point I’ve made.

Perhaps see you at Hampden on Saturday and Tuesday so we can cheer the guys on?

All I want is for these guys to be playing consistently for their respective clubs and winning major honours. That way Scotland has a greater chance to compete at major tournaments. 

Looking at the hard facts. We’ve managed to make one tournament since 1998 via a penalty shootout. 

I honestly believe that for our national team to get to major championships we need all our players in the squad to be playing regularly at a high standard.

[Monkey Tennis]

9 minutes ago, Molotov said:

Are you honestly suggesting that guys like Dalglish, Souness, Hansen, Gemmill, Bremner, etc would not make it into an EPL team? 

No, but I don't think it's necessarily the case that any but Dalglish would play for top end teams.

[velo army]

Robertson, McGinn and Tierney all had well over a hundred games each in Scottish football before moving south. That's a key factor in succeeding down there. I don't agree that Gilmour moving when he did has been as beneficial as is being made out. Time and time again we see Scottish youngsters moving before even a handful (if any) first team appearances and it almost never works out.

 

[Molotov]

Just now, Monkey Tennis said:

No, but I don't think it's necessarily the case that any but Dalglish would play for top end teams.

 

[Monkey Tennis]

1 minute ago, Molotov said:

 

What's funny?

The top English sides bore no relation then, to the current incarnations in terms of their composition.  

Gemmill was a good industrious midfielder who improved a couple of clubs and scored a famous international goal.  He was no superstar though.

The Bremner who won the European Cup wasn't called Billy.

[Molotov]

22 minutes ago, Monkey Tennis said:

What's funny?

The top English sides bore no relation then, to the current incarnations in terms of their composition.  

Gemmill was a good industrious midfielder who improved a couple of clubs and scored a famous international goal.  He was no superstar though.

The Bremner who won the European Cup wasn't called Billy.

Billy Bremner is classed as the greatest ever Leeds player and won European honours. He was also named as English player of the year. 
Souness won multiple titles and three European cups as did Hansen.
Archie Gemmill was a vital player in the history or Derby County and Nottingham Forest and was involved in every game apart from the final. 
Archie was far superior over a longer period than Des.

All those players were outstanding and to say they would not be good enough today with modern training methods is doing them a massive disservice.

Are you on the bevvy?

Edited March 22, 2023 by Molotov

[Jambomo]

7 minutes ago, Molotov said:

How many EPL games has KT actually started this season?

I think you are just looking for any excuse for an argument and overlooking the point I’ve made.

Perhaps see you at Hampden on Saturday and Tuesday so we can cheer the guys on?

All I want is for these guys to be playing consistently for their respective clubs and winning major honours. That way Scotland has a greater chance to compete at major tournaments. 

Looking at the hard facts. We’ve managed to make one tournament since 1998 via a penalty shootout. 

I honestly believe that for our national team to get to major championships we need all our players in the squad to be playing regularly at a high standard.

Not at all, I just don’t think you point has much merit. You originally said that we didn’t have any great talent coming through in the last decade and I simply pointed out that yes, we do. 

I agree with wanting them to play regularly but equally players are in and out of teams all the time.

KT is a good example, he was a regular in the PL and Europe for Arsenal last year, but Arteta changes tactics to an inverted LB and now he isn’t. It doesn’t reflect on his ability as a football player or his quality.

The main question is, do they perform well for us and if so, why shouldn’t we pick them?

Yeah, I will be at Hampden on Sat and Tue, cheering them on. Looking forward to it it’s been a while since the last games.

[Monkey Tennis]

16 minutes ago, Molotov said:

Billy Bremner is classed as the greatest ever Leeds player and won European honours. He was also named as European player of the year. 
Souness won multiple titles and three European cups as did Hansen.
Archie Gemmill was a vital player in the history or Derby County and Nottingham Forest and was involved in every game apart from the final. 
Archie was far superior over a longer period than Des.

All those players were outstanding and to say they would not be good enough today with modern training methods is doing them a massive disservice.

Are you on the bevvy?

No I'm not.

It's one of the reasons I'm not saying stupid, instantly disprovable things like "Billy Bremner was named as European Player of the Year".

Edited March 22, 2023 by Monkey Tennis

[Molotov]

2 minutes ago, Jambomo said:

You originally said that we didn’t have any great talent coming through in the last decade and I simply pointed out that yes, we do. 

I didn’t say that. I really didn’t. 

Our “wonder talent” of the last decade includes Ryan Gauld, Oliver Burke, Nathan Paterson and Billy Gilmour. 

Despite all in leagues and training environments far superior to our leagues they just appear to have stalled or gone backwards.“

The media were actively promoting these guys as the future of our national team. I said it appears their progression has stalled or gone backwards. I’m not sure what you are trying to prove here.