Frank Quitely Posted February 22, 2022 Share Posted February 22, 2022 The phrase 'Individual Responsibility' and Boris Johnson cannot coexist in the same sentence. 8 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dawson Park Boy Posted February 22, 2022 Share Posted February 22, 2022 10 hours ago, San Starko Rover said: wishful thinking at best. Basically people are complete idiots! When you drive a car we have to have Speed Limits, MOTs, Drink Driving Limits. Ask yourself what would happen if you removed those rules and left it up to ‘individual responsibility’. what percentage of the population do you think will follow the government Covid guidelines, hell a large percentage refuse to follow the current rules let alone guidelines. The big difference in this case, however, is that the risk is minuscule. You can be knocked down by a vehicle but you don’t refuse to cross roads.. The added benefit in binning rules now is that more people will get omicron quicker than otherwise and the safeguarding effects of their vaccines will be stronger than if they caught the disease later when the vaccine will be less potent. Bear in mind that everyone is expected to get this disease sooner or later just like the flu. What Boris has done is bold, freedom giving, confidence boosting and, in my view, correct. -1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EvilScotsman Posted February 22, 2022 Share Posted February 22, 2022 10 minutes ago, Dawson Park Boy said: You can be knocked down by a vehicle but you don’t refuse to cross roads.. What you're advocating is akin to doing away with traffic regulations, and relying on drivers' "personal responsibility" to prevent accidents. -1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arabdownunder Posted February 22, 2022 Share Posted February 22, 2022 Looking forward to video footage of DPB trying to cross the M8 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
strichener Posted February 22, 2022 Share Posted February 22, 2022 (edited) 37 minutes ago, EvilScotsman said: What you're advocating is akin to doing away with traffic regulations, and relying on drivers' "personal responsibility" to prevent accidents. Aye cause having a virus is akin to being in control of one tonne of metal that can travel at 100mph. Are there any laws that take away personal responsibility for any other virus? Is it illegal to go to work or have to self isolate if you have, for example, norovirus? Your comparisons are bordering on the "but seatbelts" idiocy. Edited February 22, 2022 by strichener 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Highlandmagar Posted February 22, 2022 Share Posted February 22, 2022 55 minutes ago, Dawson Park Boy said: The big difference in this case, however, is that the risk is minuscule. You can be knocked down by a vehicle but you don’t refuse to cross roads.. The added benefit in binning rules now is that more people will get omicron quicker than otherwise and the safeguarding effects of their vaccines will be stronger than if they caught the disease later when the vaccine will be less potent. Bear in mind that everyone is expected to get this disease sooner or later just like the flu. What Boris has done is bold, freedom giving, confidence boosting and, in my view, correct. A vehicle on the road is a visible threat. Covid is not. It is your judgement wether to cross that road or not. You don't have that luxury with an invisible threat. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dawson Park Boy Posted February 22, 2022 Share Posted February 22, 2022 35 minutes ago, Highlandmagyar Tier 3 said: A vehicle on the road is a visible threat. Covid is not. It is your judgement wether to cross that road or not. You don't have that luxury with an invisible threat. Invisible it may be but because of vaccines, drugs, etc, the threat is minimal and is not worth getting into a lather about. If anyone wants to go about in a hazmat suit or wear a ww2 gas match, batter on but let the rest of us get on with our lives. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Highlandmagar Posted February 22, 2022 Share Posted February 22, 2022 6 minutes ago, Dawson Park Boy said: Invisible it may be but because of vaccines, drugs, etc, the threat is minimal and is not worth getting into a lather about. If anyone wants to go about in a hazmat suit or wear a ww2 gas match, batter on but let the rest of us get on with our lives. A government has a duty to protect its society. This government does not and is not the least interested in doing that. There is now even more financial pressure on people who contract Covid. Free tests binned, isolation grant binned. With all the economic pressures piling up, people are falling into real poverty. Regards vaccines etc. Science said yesterday ( Whitty etc.) that this virus may mutate even more virulent than the Omega strain. No guarantee that these vaccines will work against it. It goes back to the Tory ideology of herd immunity no matter what the cost to the population. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Left Back Posted February 22, 2022 Share Posted February 22, 2022 21 minutes ago, Highlandmagyar Tier 3 said: A government has a duty to protect its society. This government does not and is not the least interested in doing that. There is now even more financial pressure on people who contract Covid. Free tests binned, isolation grant binned. With all the economic pressures piling up, people are falling into real poverty. Regards vaccines etc. Science said yesterday ( Whitty etc.) that this virus may mutate even more virulent than the Omega strain. No guarantee that these vaccines will work against it. It goes back to the Tory ideology of herd immunity no matter what the cost to the population. TBF he also said it may not and may get even weaker. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coprolite Posted February 22, 2022 Share Posted February 22, 2022 1 hour ago, strichener said: Aye cause having a virus is akin to being in control of one tonne of metal that can travel at 100mph. Are there any laws that take away personal responsibility for any other virus? Is it illegal to go to work or have to self isolate if you have, for example, norovirus? Your comparisons are bordering on the "but seatbelts" idiocy. If you work in food preparation and you go in to work within (i think) 3 days of having food poisoning then you are breaching H&S rules and potentially criminally negligent. So yes, it can be. And some guy got jailed for giving partners AIDS. Not saying these are the same thing as covid rules but it's not entirely unprecedented. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
strichener Posted February 22, 2022 Share Posted February 22, 2022 18 minutes ago, coprolite said: If you work in food preparation and you go in to work within (i think) 3 days of having food poisoning then you are breaching H&S rules and potentially criminally negligent. *Citation required. In any event you are required to self report symptoms to a manger (i.e. you are personally responsible). In the case of food standards, it is the business that is responsible for the hygiene policies, not the individual. The FSA also state Quote Chest and respiratory diseases It would be extremely unusual for such an infection to cause illness through food contamination. Your Aids example is actually reinforcing the point that you are personally responsible for your actions. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coprolite Posted February 22, 2022 Share Posted February 22, 2022 21 minutes ago, strichener said: *Citation required. In any event you are required to self report symptoms to a manger (i.e. you are personally responsible). In the case of food standards, it is the business that is responsible for the hygiene policies, not the individual. The FSA also state Your Aids example is actually reinforcing the point that you are personally responsible for your actions. If you go in to work within 48 hours of food poisoning without telling management and give it to a customer you'll be in the same position as someone who hasn't self isolated with Covid. Practically probably far less likely to be penalised but in principle it's the same. It isn't left entirely up to your own judgement as to whether you're a risk and there is an arbitrary period imposed. I think Johnson has probably done the right thing here (for the wrong reasons maybe). Just making the point that it's not unprecedented to impose restrictions on people's "freedom" for public health reasons outside of an emergency. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soapy FFC Posted February 22, 2022 Share Posted February 22, 2022 24 minutes ago, coprolite said: I think Johnson has probably done the right thing here (for the wrong reasons maybe). That's my biggest problem with all of this. I do understand that things need to go back to normal at some time, but this stinks of being part of a process to save face with all the problems that Johnson faces, rather than a properly thought out Covid strategy to get things back to normal in a manner that brings all the various groups involved along in a consensus fashion. Unfortunately if it pays off, which in all probabilities it will, then the Tories will keep pushing the message of what a great leader he was, how he made all the right decisions, and single-handedly got Britain through covid, whereas in reality be bumbled through it without a coherent plan, taking gambles for personal reasons, and getting though it by luck more than skill. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeeTillEhDeh Posted February 22, 2022 Share Posted February 22, 2022 After mass testing is binned will they stop employers forcing staff to take tests if they develop symptoms?I imagine that there will be some who will still insist on them - meaning the employees will need to pay them out of their own pocket. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dawson Park Boy Posted February 22, 2022 Share Posted February 22, 2022 15 minutes ago, DeeTillEhDeh said: After mass testing is binned will they stop employers forcing staff to take tests if they develop symptoms? I imagine that there will be some who will still insist on them - meaning the employees will need to pay them out of their own pocket. Can’t quite get my head round this. If the employee is feeling below par but able to work, why would he even say to his employer? If he is feeling so rough that he can’t work, then he’ll be off sick. Again, what’s Covid got to do with it? The rules will just be the same as pre- Covid. Common sense is all that is required. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doulikefish Posted February 22, 2022 Share Posted February 22, 2022 On the bright side bojo has gave all his Russian pals plenty time to move there cash with the obvious lie about abramavich thrown in for good measure 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Antlion Posted February 22, 2022 Share Posted February 22, 2022 3 hours ago, Soapy FFC said: Unfortunately if it pays off, which in all probabilities it will, then the Tories will keep pushing the message of what a great leader he was, how he made all the right decisions, and single-handedly got Britain through covid, whereas in reality be bumbled through it without a coherent plan, taking gambles for personal reasons, and getting though it by luck more than skill. Oh come on - it’s not just “luck” that has kept Johnson’s premiership afloat. Being rich and having rich and powerful pals has played a role too. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeeTillEhDeh Posted February 22, 2022 Share Posted February 22, 2022 Can’t quite get my head round this. If the employee is feeling below par but able to work, why would he even say to his employer? If he is feeling so rough that he can’t work, then he’ll be off sick. Again, what’s Covid got to do with it? The rules will just be the same as pre- Covid. Common sense is all that is required.My son was feeling really under the weather last week - called his boss and the first thing he asked was if my son had taken an LFT - he told them he had but that it was negative. He was then told that he still had to still take a PCR before he could return to work.Mental tbqh. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dawson Park Boy Posted February 22, 2022 Share Posted February 22, 2022 6 minutes ago, DeeTillEhDeh said: My son was feeling really under the weather last week - called his boss and the first thing he asked was if my son had taken an LFT - he told them he had but that it was negative. He was then told that he still had to still take a PCR before could return to work. Mental tbqh. Agreed, Nuts!! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
strichener Posted February 22, 2022 Share Posted February 22, 2022 7 hours ago, coprolite said: If you work in food preparation and you go in to work within (i think) 3 days of having food poisoning then you are breaching H&S rules and potentially criminally negligent. So yes, it can be. And some guy got jailed for giving partners AIDS. Not saying these are the same thing as covid rules but it's not entirely unprecedented. Fair enough points. However even in a food setting, asymptomatic people are not forced to take tests to show that they aren't carrying a virus and therefore fit to work. They also have no requirement to isolate when they have had a virus, just can't go into work for 48 hours after symptoms cease. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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