Tartan Tammy 1297 Posted February 21, 2021 Share Posted February 21, 2021 1 minute ago, Ric said: Well no, let's all be honest here, it's fucking hilarious Hearts "are doon", but an expanded league to include Raith, Ayr, Dunfermline.. hell even Morton, and, even Dundee at a push. Let's not remind ourselves before being rightfully relegated, successful businesswoman Ann Budge was clamouring not only for the league to be reduced in size but for the number of clubs in Scotland to be reduced too. Why not derby games are great for Scottish football if anything can get us out the graveyard in terms of whipping up any interest from TV companies its derby games Even the Indian league has there games beamed around the world these days as a exampleso sure a better orginised bigger league would drum up a lot more interest outwith our shores 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ric Posted February 21, 2021 Share Posted February 21, 2021 2 minutes ago, Tartan Tammy 1297 said: Why not derby games are great for Scottish football if anything can get us out the graveyard in terms of whipping up any interest from TV companies its derby games Why not? I've told you why not. Successful businesswoman Ann Budge was plunging the knife into the back of Scottish football and has been since she arrived. f**k her, and her team, imo. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tartan Tammy 1297 Posted February 21, 2021 Share Posted February 21, 2021 1 minute ago, Ric said: Why not? I've told you why not. Successful businesswoman Ann Budge was plunging the knife into the back of Scottish football and has been since she arrived. f**k her, and her team, imo. BUDGE dont run.the SCA does she or did she take over from Doncaster? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ric Posted February 21, 2021 Share Posted February 21, 2021 2 minutes ago, Tartan Tammy 1297 said: BUDGE dont run.the SCA does she or did she take over from Doncaster? So here's an analogy, if you had a neighbour who threatened to shite all over your garden and was in the middle of dropping their trousers before being told to f**k off, would you invite them to a party at your place? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arch Stanton Posted February 21, 2021 Share Posted February 21, 2021 8 minutes ago, Ric said: Successful businesswoman Ann Budge... f**k her Eeww, rather you than me. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Comrie Posted February 21, 2021 Share Posted February 21, 2021 LOVE to see it LOCE 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rbon Posted February 21, 2021 Share Posted February 21, 2021 I think a 12 team premier league is the ideal size of league for a country our size. I’m even a fan of the split as i feel it brings a balance at the end of the season we don’t see in larger leagues. i do prefer Austria and Denmark split of it being after 22 games though but that’s my only grumble with our current set up. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PauloPerth Posted February 21, 2021 Share Posted February 21, 2021 2 minutes ago, Rbon said: I think a 12 team premier league is the ideal size of league for a country our size. I’m even a fan of the split as i feel it brings a balance at the end of the season we don’t see in larger leagues. i do prefer Austria and Denmark split of it being after 22 games though but that’s my only grumble with our current set up. Agree I think it’s ideal for us as well. Disagree about doing it after 22 matches though, far too early and would be too much of the same thing if you finished bottom half. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G51 Posted February 21, 2021 Share Posted February 21, 2021 (edited) 6 minutes ago, Rbon said: I think a 12 team premier league is the ideal size of league for a country our size. I’m even a fan of the split as i feel it brings a balance at the end of the season we don’t see in larger leagues. i do prefer Austria and Denmark split of it being after 22 games though but that’s my only grumble with our current set up. Yeah, for all the moaning about the split, none of the alternatives are actually any good. The current setup gets the maximum amount of chaos with the least amount of dead rubbers. ETA: The only good setup that would be better than the split is a South American-style Apertura and Clausura, with playoffs to decide various things such as title winners, European places, relegation etc. But these setups are considered heretical in Europe. Edited February 21, 2021 by G51 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bennett Posted February 22, 2021 Share Posted February 22, 2021 20 minutes ago, Ric said: So here's an analogy, if you had a neighbour who threatened to shite all over your garden and was in the middle of dropping their trousers before being told to f**k off, would you invite them to a party at your place? Did you apologise, probably the first step in making things right with your neighbours. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ric Posted February 22, 2021 Share Posted February 22, 2021 The whole dead rubbers is a complete red herring, in fact I would contend that the split introduces more meaningless games. Once the split has taken place the teams in 5th and 6th, and 7th and 8th are pretty much locked into position. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rbon Posted February 22, 2021 Share Posted February 22, 2021 (edited) 6 minutes ago, Ric said: The whole dead rubbers is a complete red herring, in fact I would contend that the split introduces more meaningless games. Once the split has taken place the teams in 5th and 6th, and 7th and 8th are pretty much locked into position. Guess you could combat that with 7th place gaining you a play off place for the Europa League Conference with 5th but then that brings the headache of the possibility throwing a game or two as it’s easier to finish 7th than it is 5th. Genrally always going to be negative to whatever system is used. Edited February 22, 2021 by Rbon 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ric Posted February 22, 2021 Share Posted February 22, 2021 Just now, Rbon said: Guess you could combat that with 7th place gaining you a play off place for the Europa League Conference but then that brings the headache of throwing a game or two as it’s easier to finish 7th than it is 5th. Genrally always going to be negative to whatever system is used. I'm not really a fan of the split for one main reason, you can have the teams in 7th having more points than the team in 6th and that just annoys me. We all know why that is, because of the way the fixtures are set up post split. However my point was more aimed at the "dead rubbers" claim that gets tossed about. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thereisalight.. Posted February 22, 2021 Share Posted February 22, 2021 I still think the bottom 2 will be Hamilton and Ross County. Really hope not after the win by County earlier 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DiegoDiego Posted February 22, 2021 Share Posted February 22, 2021 I'm not really a fan of the split for one main reason, you can have the teams in 7th having more points than the team in 6th and that just annoys me. We all know why that is, because of the way the fixtures are set up post split. However my point was more aimed at the "dead rubbers" claim that gets tossed about.I think you'll need to come up with a better argument than "it just annoys me" if you're to sway anyone's opinion.It does cut the number of dead rubbers though. If it weren't for the split, the two Saints and Dundee United's seasons would be over already. As for 7th place being locked I thought it would be generations from now before the seminal Hibsing would be forgotten. The split also unarguably increases the amount of six pointers. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lurkst Posted February 22, 2021 Share Posted February 22, 2021 1 hour ago, Ric said: The whole dead rubbers is a complete red herring, in fact I would contend that the split introduces more meaningless games. Once the split has taken place the teams in 5th and 6th, and 7th and 8th are pretty much locked into position. It's only for 5 games though. And, as mentioned above in the case of Hibs, unless you are mathematically safe in 7th place there are no meaningless matches. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lurkst Posted February 22, 2021 Share Posted February 22, 2021 2 hours ago, PauloPerth said: There must be a generation of killie and Motherwell fans who have never seen their team play in the league below. At least one. You could be a lifelong Motherwell supporting grandparent and never have seen your team play in the lower leagues. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve McQueen Posted February 22, 2021 Share Posted February 22, 2021 7 hours ago, Rbon said: I think a 12 team premier league is the ideal size of league for a country our size. I’m even a fan of the split as i feel it brings a balance at the end of the season we don’t see in larger leagues. i do prefer Austria and Denmark split of it being after 22 games though but that’s my only grumble with our current set up. If we split at 22 do we then play each other 3 times after to get 35 games? Cant see 2 clubs in particular being happy about that imbalance. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ric Posted February 22, 2021 Share Posted February 22, 2021 8 hours ago, DiegoDiego said: I think you'll need to come up with a better argument than "it just annoys me" if you're to sway anyone's opinion. Two things really, one of them isn't me trying to sway anyone's opinion. I was quite clear as to the point my post was addressing. However, on the second point, it's pretty fundamental to a league structure that those with higher points sit higher in the table than those who have lower points totals. Shall we introduce that for the league winners? How about relegation? Is it suddenly irrelevant because it's mid table? 8 hours ago, DiegoDiego said: It does cut the number of dead rubbers though. If it weren't for the split, the two Saints and Dundee United's seasons would be over already. As for 7th place being locked I thought it would be generations from now before the seminal Hibsing would be forgotten. The split also unarguably increases the amount of six pointers. Sorry but that's nonsense. Claiming that 3 teams' season would be over when there are places to play for it just untrue. You could however argue that when St Mirren rightfully claim their Fitzpatrick heralded top 6 finish, the games between United and St Johnstone will be "dead rubbers". They won't be in the relegation fight and will be denied any chance of challenging for the European slots. You could further argue that all St Johnston and Dundee United games are, for them, dead rubbers. The dead rubbers argument is only really relevant when discussing expanding the league to 18 or 20 teams (not something I'm advocating, I think 14 is about right) and in such large leagues there is a case to be made for that but they simply do not factor into a 12 team league, well not until you introduce an artificial barrier stopping teams progressing up (or down) the league past a certain point. Using Hibs as an example simply doesn't factor in here, as the split played absolutely no part in their demise, it would have happened with or without it. As for more 6 pointers, again that's making the wrong assumption you need the split for that, this is just league fixture scheduling, nothing more. The league already schedules the fixtures to fit into the split format, it could equally schedule those fixtures without it. No doubt the reply will be "but they won't know who is in the bottom 6 is", that's true, but equally the league schedules the pre-split games not knowing who will be in that bottom 6 either. Which leads me onto another failing of the split and that is the number of games played at home/away. It's just fundamentally unfair that a club should have 3 home games to another teams 1. Or that they have to play the bigger teams away more often then their relegation rivals. I'll finish with two important summary points: 1) This isn't an exhaustive case against the split, I'm merely addressing the points you raised. 2) I get that the split is favoured by some, in fact probably the majority, but when you actually strip away the logic you'll find that the split is nothing more than an artificially introduced waypoint, and that the excitement of the relegation battle (because in general that's the main focus post split) could be, and has been, achieved without the split even existing. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ric Posted February 22, 2021 Share Posted February 22, 2021 7 hours ago, Lurkst said: It's only for 5 games though. And, as mentioned above in the case of Hibs, unless you are mathematically safe in 7th place there are no meaningless matches. I'll reply, although it's pretty much covered in my other reply. The fact Hibs dropped like a stone had absolutely nothing to do with the split, they would have done that with or without it. If anything it's actually an argument against the split in that if Hibs had made the top 6 before their death spiral (and I'd need to look up just how close they got to achieving that) the split would have robbed you of that car crash entertainment. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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