Jacksgranda Posted May 12, 2020 Share Posted May 12, 2020 3 hours ago, Todd_is_God said: December to March, like every other year. There is no evidence that implementing the lockdown here, when they did, had any real effect on limiting deaths (Just as there isn't any to say that it didn't tbf). Flattening a curve might make the peak smaller, but doesn't automatically make the area under it any less. It is perfectly acceptable to say that the loss of life is tragic, and that the lockdown was (and is) ineffective. The lockdown wasn't specifically designed to avoid loss of life per se, it was designed to stop the NHS getting overwhelmed with hospitalisations all at once, which would inevitably have resulted in horrendous scenes and more than likely even more deaths. This has been explained to you more than once. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jacksgranda Posted May 12, 2020 Share Posted May 12, 2020 2 hours ago, Forest_Fifer said: 2 hours ago, Todd_is_God said: At least you agree it's ineffective That's not what he meant and you know it. I wouldn't be too sure... 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bairnardo Posted May 12, 2020 Share Posted May 12, 2020 5 minutes ago, virginton said: One would expect that their apparent group devastation at being 'trained to teach kids and that's not what they're doing' would show through at such times as well; it doesn't though. The last thing that the UK needs is to put yet another group of workers on a pedestal and pretend that they're some sort of heroic martyrs; least of all teachers whose purpose/perk trade-off is blindingly fucking obvious. They have excellent holidays. No one is disputing that. You seemed to be implying that enjoying their holidays is an indication that they dont enjoy their work or are lazy. No one is martyring them. What we are seeing here is the very British style of queueing up to tell other folk they shouldnt be defending their contractual rights and conditions, and instead should be working for free. If I am asked to work for free at any point between now and my inevitable death, I will proudly tell my employer to GTF. If you dont want to that's fine, but dont expect the same of those of us who place appropriate value on our time 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Theroadlesstravelled Posted May 12, 2020 Share Posted May 12, 2020 I'm sure there are a few teachers who want to be teachers but there are more than a few who are in it for days off and couldn't get a job anywhere else. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stumigoo Posted May 12, 2020 Share Posted May 12, 2020 I'm sure there are a few teachers who want to be teachers but there are more than a few who are in it for days off and couldn't get a job anywhere else.You’ll have some empirical evidence to prove that? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bairnardo Posted May 12, 2020 Share Posted May 12, 2020 2 minutes ago, Theroadlesstravelled said: I'm sure there are a few teachers who want to be teachers but there are more than a few who are in it for days off and couldn't get a job anywhere else. So they have less right to those days off or should be expected to give them up for no money? A wage cut, in very real terms? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vikingTON Posted May 12, 2020 Share Posted May 12, 2020 (edited) 6 minutes ago, Bairnardo said: They have excellent holidays. No one is disputing that. You seemed to be implying that enjoying their holidays is an indication that they dont enjoy their work or are lazy. No one is martyring them. What we are seeing here is the very British style of queueing up to tell other folk they shouldnt be defending their contractual rights and conditions, and instead should be working for free. Well no, what we actually saw here was someone claim with a straight face that teachers want nothing more to be in the classroom doing their job right now, when we all know that they much prefer sitting in the house instead. As would anybody else who saw their workload reduce or finish with no negative financial impact on themselves. Some teachers prefer to circle the wagons on that point though and pretend that they're some of sort of thankless servants for the next generation. And that's where we point and laugh. Edited May 12, 2020 by vikingTON 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Granny Danger Posted May 12, 2020 Share Posted May 12, 2020 3 minutes ago, stumigoo said: You’ll have some empirical evidence to prove that? Empirical evidence on P&B? Dear dear. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest JTS98 Posted May 12, 2020 Share Posted May 12, 2020 1 minute ago, Theroadlesstravelled said: I'm sure there are a few teachers who want to be teachers but there are more than a few who are in it for days off and couldn't get a job anywhere else. To get through the process to become a teacher you have to demonstrate a passable level of presentation skills, communication skills, ability to balance a heavy workload, forward planning, creativity, patience, composure when things go wrong, conflict resolution, an ability to interact with people from varying backgrounds and of varying ages and educational ability, good record-keeping, attention to detail, ability to monitor and assess progress across various areas... I could go on. Of course, teachers will not all be equal in these things, like any job. However, the idea that someone could be considered suitable to do a job requiring these skills yet 'unable to get a job anywhere else' is beyond silly. Offices the length and breadth of the country are packed with feckless souls who would break down greeting if asked to do a teacher's job for a week. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stumigoo Posted May 12, 2020 Share Posted May 12, 2020 Empirical evidence on P&B? Dear dear.Yeah, imagine. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Venom Posted May 12, 2020 Share Posted May 12, 2020 You'd think people would be tripping over themselves become teachers what with the government bri...training grants, perks, job satisfaction, and glamorous stress-free life. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Granny Danger Posted May 12, 2020 Share Posted May 12, 2020 Just now, stumigoo said: Yeah, imagine. Well I only offer uncorroborated opinions and I have no evidence that these opinions are even mine. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Inanimate Carbon Rod Posted May 12, 2020 Share Posted May 12, 2020 You'd think people would be tripping over themselves become teachers what with the government bri...training grants, perks, job satisfaction, and glamorous stress-free life. Teaching is a very noble calling, but I do think they should be expected to help their pupils catch up, if more money is required then so be it. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Todd_is_God Posted May 12, 2020 Share Posted May 12, 2020 (edited) 36 minutes ago, Jacksgranda said: The lockdown wasn't specifically designed to avoid loss of life per se, it was designed to stop the NHS getting overwhelmed with hospitalisations all at once, which would inevitably have resulted in horrendous scenes and more than likely even more deaths. This has been explained to you more than once. And there was never a time when the NHS was close to being overwhelmed. There's no guarantee the lockdown prevented anything. Deaths peaked about 18 days after the lockdown started. Based on the average time from infection to death being around 23 days then they peaked before the lockdown would have impacted on that. The government's own projections cited a lockdown being necessary to push the peak back to May. This clearly didn't happen which should provide an insight in to how effective it was at protecting the NHS. The government decided on a herd immunity approach, got spooked by Ferguson's nonsense model, and in turn implemented a half arsed lockdown with disatrous socio-economic effects which it will now struggle to pull back until the fabled vaccine is maybe produced. Edited May 12, 2020 by Todd_is_God 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gaz Posted May 12, 2020 Share Posted May 12, 2020 4 minutes ago, virginton said: Well no, what we actually saw here was someone claim with a straight face that teachers want nothing more to be in the classroom doing their job right now, when we all know that they much prefer sitting in the house instead. Do you honestly believe teachers prefer this online model of remote working to actually being in a school? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Todd_is_God Posted May 12, 2020 Share Posted May 12, 2020 1 minute ago, Gaz said: Do you honestly believe teachers prefer this online model of remote working to actually being in a school? I think it's safe to say some will be enjoying a slight change of pace, whilst others, particularly those less technologically minded, will be hating it. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ayrmad Posted May 12, 2020 Share Posted May 12, 2020 We'll have hope teachers and such like don't see a significant lift in their wage packet, this shitstorm will have to be paid for once it's over, hopefully we'll all be in it together this time round. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gaz Posted May 12, 2020 Share Posted May 12, 2020 1 minute ago, Todd_is_God said: I think it's safe to say some will be enjoying a slight change of pace, whilst others, particularly those less technologically minded, will be hating it. You may be right, but in my experience the majority want to be back in school. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Inanimate Carbon Rod Posted May 12, 2020 Share Posted May 12, 2020 We'll have hope teachers and such like don't see a significant lift in their wage packet, this shitstorm will have to be paid for once it's over, hopefully we'll all be in it together this time round. Just scrap hs2. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Granny Danger Posted May 12, 2020 Share Posted May 12, 2020 This thread just now... 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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